Theoretical physics as a backup carreer

[tgt]

Do you? Advanced students usually tend to tackle problems themselves or with other students. I have never seen any student wanting tutoring in advanced subjects.

Good point but yes I do and they are not the brightest.

 

[TeethWhitener]

Yes, I suspected that, but do those even exist? They don't in my country (Sweden), or at least they didn't when I went to the university.

In America (at least at the Ivies/high-end private schools) there are quite a few undergrad level students willing to pay a good chunk of money ($50+/hr) for tutoring from postdocs or grad students. It's becoming quite a burgeoning industry here. I have at least two friends who graduated (PhD) at the same time as me who have gone on to start tutoring companies.

 

[russ_watters]

Other thing is forseeing myself to be single with no child and relatively wealthy parents, not really worried about finances too much.

Are the wealthy parents the main reason you've reached age 30 without even a clear path to a career, much less an already established one? If you don't need the money, then you can do math or physics as a hobby (and a fantasy) if you want (like V50's friend). Which is good, because I don't consider what you are describing to be a "career" path. Tutoring is a side-job that college students do to make money for rent and beer. It isn't a career (unless you start a tutoring company...). A math phd that you spend 20 years on and then only intend to attempt to use for one year isn't a career either.

Whichever it is, you should be realistic about it, because other people will. If you reach your late 40s, earn a physics phd and look to start a physics career, people will judge you based on your age. It won't be age discrimination, it will be a fair judge of your seriousness. When a prospective employer or school asks "so what have you been doing for the last 20 years?" V50s friend can say "I had a full and successful career. Having defeated one industry, I'm looking for a new challenge." All you'll be able to say is "tutoring". A much less impressive answer.

 

[tgt]

Are the wealthy parents the main reason you've reached age 30 without even a clear path to a career, much less an already established one? If you don't need the money, then you can do math or physics as a hobby (and a fantasy) if you want (like V50's friend). Which is good, because I don't consider what you are describing to be a "career" path. Tutoring is a side-job that college students do to make money for rent and beer. It isn't a career (unless you start a tutoring company...). A math phd that you spend 20 years on and then only intend to attempt to use for one year isn't a career either.

Actually, my parents are not that wealthy. It was probably more me being not very monetary oriented and the fact that I made a decision very early (actually in year 10) not to have kids in life. My background in high school wasn't too science or maths oriented and only got addicted to math in senior high school and wanted to become a professional mathematician - but not knowing how hard it would be to find a job. Decided to follow my dreams and did maths and physics at uni but because of my bad background was basically playing catch up to everybody else. As a result, didn't get good results and didn't do well enough to do a Phd in my early twenties (which is when everyone else are doing their Phds). This fact (and having a low sex drive and the fact that I don't want a baby) also tarnished my confidence in chasing woman hence why I am still single. Did some maths postgraduate coursework part time after that and found tutoring on the side very helpful in terms of making some money as well as improve my own mathematics. Now at 30, am comfortable to "start life again" so to speak and have enrolled in a bachelor degree in mathematics but this time, going for top marks in order to gain a scholarship to do a Phd in pure maths which is my passion (more than physics). So it was a mixture of unpreparedness, passion and naivety that have led me to this way today. However, I am grateful that I am still doing what I love and am better at it than I ever have been. Considering what everyone has said, I probably will stick to mathematics and not do a Physics Phd, unless if I fail to do a Math Phd this time around.

On the subject of tutoring, is that the lowest job academic job in academia? Because it seems to me to be. Seems to me to be analogous of being a cleaner compared to the other academic jobs in academia.

Whichever it is, you should be realistic about it, because other people will. If you reach your late 40s, earn a physics phd and look to start a physics career, people will judge you based on your age. It won't be age discrimination, it will be a fair judge of your seriousness. When a prospective employer or school asks "so what have you been doing for the last 20 years?" V50s friend can say "I had a full and successful career. Having defeated one industry, I'm looking for a new challenge." All you'll be able to say is "tutoring". A much less impressive answer.

Very interesting post. I like the comment "Having defeated one industry" a claim that can be made after one had made a lot of money from the industry. However, couldn't the person just got lucky? Although I guess he still defeated it from being lucky!

 

[Vanadium 50]

However, couldn't the person just got lucky?

Sure. But it's not very nice to disparage someone else's actual accomplishments for not measuring up to the ones in your fantasies.

 

[tgt]

Sure. But it's not very nice to disparage someone else's actual accomplishments for not measuring up to the ones in your fantasies.

Just raising it as a possibility. In industry, timing is very important!

 

[Vanadium 50]

Just raising it as a possibility.

People can see what you wrote. And like I said, it's not very nice to disparage someone else's accomplishments. Particularly from where you are now.

 

[tgt]

People can see what you wrote. And like I said, it's not very nice to disparage someone else's accomplishments. Particularly from where you are now.

Ok fair enough.

Given my past as written in Post 34, what do people think of me now? Do I still have a chance to make an impact in pure maths or theoretical physics? Or am I really looking at tutoring the rest of my life if I don't switch to something more practical? Thing is looking around, many top students seem to have parents that are academics, doctors or other worthy professions. For me, only one parent is smart. Maybe I'm not genetically superior enough and my bad grounding early in life has killed any chance of making an impact in either pure maths or theoretical physics? My personality and own philosophy, however definitely points towards pure maths or theoretical physics and that is why I'm still pursuing it despite all the setbacks. Also I don't know what else I'd be interested enough to form a career from.

 

[Intraverno]

Are you seriously trying to imply that your parents not being smart is somehow giving you bad genetics and that that's all that matters in making impacts in math and physics?

I'm a freshman in high school, and to me it looks like all you care about is your supposed impact on the world and your fame and renown. You talk about making this supposedly Einstein impact like it's the only thing worth living for, and I can tell you despite my inexperience that Einstein had lots to live for when he developed relativity. He had his wife and children, and he had reasons outside of his work to live and be happy. Without that kind of motivation and drive you just can't have the sort of exceptional career that he had.

If you end up tutoring or teaching your whole life, does this make you somehow inferior to Einstein? No! You should live to be happy, not to write a big paper that changes science. As cheesy as it sounds, being the sort of exceptional genius like Einstein is the same as being like Cincinnatus, where you can't want too badly to do that specific thing or you'll only end up disappointing yourself and reducing your own morale and happiness.

I think you know that your genetics and willingness to become obsessed and work unhealthily is not all that needs to be done to accomplish what Einstein did. It really does come down a lot to luck, and with how team driven everything including research is today it's unlikely a single individual will ever be another Einstein. And this shouldn't bother you. You have to let go and stop worrying about whether you'll be remembered for generations and generations into the future as such a great genius who had such a big impact. Enjoy life for what it is, and pursue your research because you want to, not because you think you'll be higher in the eyes of everyone else or that it will make you have more worth as a person.

 

[Orodruin]

Considering what everyone has said, I probably will stick to mathematics and not do a Physics Phd, unless if I fail to do a Math Phd this time around.

This keeps popping up - physics as a backup to mathematics. Why do you think doing a PhD in physics would be any easier than doing a PhD in mathematics? In general, this is not the case.

 

[tgt]

This keeps popping up - physics as a backup to mathematics. Why do you think doing a PhD in physics would be any easier than doing a PhD in mathematics? In general, this is not the case.

I finished a double major in math and physics as an undergrad. My physics marks were at least 10% higher than my pure maths subject scores. Hence indication that I am better at physics and so more easily be able to do a Physics Phd. There are some math geniuses out there who are able to finish a maths phd in a few years but I am not one of them. Maths comes slowly to me but I thoroughly enjoy it. Also when growing up, I had always wanted to be a theoretical physicist (was doing thought experiments and reading about special relativity at 14). So now what do you think?

 

[tgt]

Are you seriously trying to imply that your parents not being smart is somehow giving you bad genetics and that that's all that matters in making impacts in math and physics?

Off course not but without superior genetics makes my life harder. Basically I have to work harder than everyone else.

I'm a freshman in high school, and to me it looks like all you care about is your supposed impact on the world and your fame and renown. You talk about making this supposedly Einstein impact like it's the only thing worth living for, and I can tell you despite my inexperience that Einstein had lots to live for when he developed relativity. He had his wife and children, and he had reasons outside of his work to live and be happy. Without that kind of motivation and drive you just can't have the sort of exceptional career that he had.

If you end up tutoring or teaching your whole life, does this make you somehow inferior to Einstein? No! You should live to be happy, not to write a big paper that changes science. As cheesy as it sounds, being the sort of exceptional genius like Einstein is the same as being like Cincinnatus, where you can't want too badly to do that specific thing or you'll only end up disappointing yourself and reducing your own morale and happiness.

I think you know that your genetics and willingness to become obsessed and work unhealthily is not all that needs to be done to accomplish what Einstein did. It really does come down a lot to luck, and with how team driven everything including research is today it's unlikely a single individual will ever be another Einstein. And this shouldn't bother you. You have to let go and stop worrying about whether you'll be remembered for generations and generations into the future as such a great genius who had such a big impact. Enjoy life for what it is, and pursue your research because you want to, not because you think you'll be higher in the eyes of everyone else or that it will make you have more worth as a person.

You are very mature for a freshman in high school! I know what you are saying and when I was in high school and even in uni, never focused on fortune or fame. However, life gets in the way. I've always did math and physics because I loved it however, I haven't achieved the success I have wanted and so currently view myself as a "loser". I know it doesn't have to be this way as you say but my mind is made up. I see myself as unworthy to get a girlfriend and am indebted to society for not having contributing enough. However, I am willing and happy to spend the rest of my life to turn things around.

 

[Haborix]

I think the questions first asked by the OP have been answered, so this truly bizarre thread can come to an end.

Q: Is theoretical physics a (never mind a good one) back-up plan?
A: No

Q: Will you (or any of us) be the next Einstein?
A$: \forall \epsilon > 0, \, P(\text{Einstein|us})<\epsilon$

 

[tgt]

I think the questions first asked by the OP have been answered, so this truly bizarre thread can come to an end.

Q: Is theoretical physics a (never mind a good one) back-up plan?
A: No

Q: Will you (or any of us) be the next Einstein?
A$: \forall \epsilon > 0, \, P(\text{Einstein|us})<\epsilon$

Nice one but this thread hasn't ended yet. Still waiting for Orodruin and others to reply.

 

[russ_watters]

On the subject of tutoring, is that the lowest job academic job in academia? Because it seems to me to be. Seems to me to be analogous of being a cleaner compared to the other academic jobs in academia.

Tutoring is not a job in academia.

Decided to follow my dreams and did maths and physics at uni but because of my bad background was basically playing catch up to everybody else. As a result, didn't get good results and didn't do well enough to do a Phd in my early twenties... Did some maths postgraduate coursework... Now at 30, am comfortable to "start life again" so to speak and have enrolled in a bachelor degree in mathematics

I'm confused: do you already have a bachelor's degree in math or physics? A master's? Why would you start over with a new bachelor's degree? Why not get a second master's?

 

[Vanadium 50]

If you want this to continue...

This thread is based on two assertions:

1. Do you think you are the next Einstein? If the answer is "yes", the followup question is "on what grounds do you base this?". If the answer is "no", the followup question is "why then does your plan assume you are?".

2. Do you think that a having mathematics career is substantially more difficult than having a physics career? So much so that anyone who has one would be the next Einstein had they gone into physics instead? If the answer is "yes", the followup question is "on what grounds do you base this?". If the answer is "no", the followup question is "why then does your plan assume it is?".

 

[tgt]

Tutoring is not a job in academia.

Surely, it is? There are many (official) sessional classroom tutors at my University. Or are you saying that private tutoring is not a job in academia?

 

[tgt]

If you want this to continue...

This thread is based on two assertions:

1. Do you think you are the next Einstein? If the answer is "yes", the followup question is "on what grounds do you base this?". If the answer is "no", the followup question is "why then does your plan assume you are?".

2. Do you think that a having mathematics career is substantially more difficult than having a physics career? So much so that anyone who has one would be the next Einstein had they gone into physics instead? If the answer is "yes", the followup question is "on what grounds do you base this?". If the answer is "no", the followup question is "why then does your plan assume it is?".

Can't provide yes and no answers so here are my best answers
Answer to 1: Low but not microscopically low chance that I'll be the next Einstein, GIVEN that I choose to do a Physics Phd some time in the future. After all everyone has a chance of winning lotto.
Answer to 2: Personally, maths is much harder for me. So I think it would be good to spend the first 40 years of my life In pure maths then dabble at whatever fits in the next 40 years. I don't know what it would be. At the rate at which things are going, I can only see myself continuing with pure maths since it's my love. That can change in 10 years time I suppose but hasn't changed in the last 10 years though. However, if my interest does change to physics in the next 10 years then I think a Phd in pure maths or at least extensive pure math knowledge gives me the best chance to make an impact in fundamental physics.

 

[Vanadium 50]

If your plan has the same probability of success as winning the lotto, wouldn't a better plan be to actually win the lotto? That at least only costs a couple of bucks, whereas getting a PhD in physics will take on average seven years.

 

[tgt]

If your plan has the same probability of success as winning the lotto, wouldn't a better plan be to actually win the lotto? That at least only costs a couple of bucks, whereas getting a PhD in physics will take on average seven years.

You've got it all wrong. I am able to live for the rest of my life just by tutoring so it's not about making the money. It's about lifting my self esteem and not to fee like a loser.

Also if people think I'm strange it is because I am since I'm high functioning autistic.

 

[Vanadium 50]

If you are doing something to improve your self-esteem that a) requires you to be the next Einstein, and b) by your own admission has the same probability of working as winning the lottery, perhaps you should find something else to try.

 

[tgt]

If you are doing something to improve your self-esteem that a) requires you to be the next Einstein, and b) by your own admission has the same probability of working as winning the lottery, perhaps you should find something else to try.

Have my mind set on maths and physics only unfortunately. I see my worthiness as defined by them. Also I've rejected all women in the past due to my incompetence in these areas when compared to the top students. This is something that saddens me a lot as they were all good people.

 

[micromass]

I see my worthiness as defined by them.

You're going to have significant problems in grad school then.

 

[radium]

You shouldn't go into physics (or math) because you want to be Einstein, you should do it because you love the subject and exploring unanswered questions. The people who are the most successful in physics are usually just very intelligent, creative people follow their interests and eventually find something substantial and interesting. Additionally, as other people said, Einstein and others like him did not live in a vacuum. While he did make incredible contributions to physics, a lot of his work was based on things previously discovered by other people (like the Lorentz transformations). People have even discovered the same things separately, which resulted from being in the same environment.

Also, to be successful in theoretical physics vs. math requires quite different skills and ways of thinking. Of course there is some overlap, but I think it's pretty presumptuous of you to consider theoretical physics as a backup to math. Every area of academia is incredibly difficult at the highest level. You may look down on experimentalists for example (based on what you have posted), but being a successful experimentalist requires incredible ingenuity and creativity.

 

[tgt]

You're going to have significant problems in grad school then.

So you think I'll struggle in grad school? Physics or maths and why?

 

[Orodruin]

So you think I'll struggle in grad school? Physics or maths and why?

You said that you define your worthiness by how you do in these subjects. If you go to grad school you are going to work on a very small and specialised part of your subject, you will encounter a lot of people who are very good at what they do and have a very good overview of several aspects of the field. In other words, chances are that you will be very mediocre in comparison to your surroundings. It is therefore very dangerous if you define your self-worth and self-esteem in terms of how you are doing in these subjects. As many others have echoed in this thread already, only defining yourself by how you do in physics and maths is generally not going to be a good thing and you should also try to have other interests. Most mathematicians and physicists do have other interests just like normal people, some go to the gym, some play the piano, some like taking long walks. It is important to have several things in your life which you enjoy.

 

[radium]

I agree, if you always feel like you need to be the smartest person in the room, you will be very unhappy during grad school. To do well in grad school, you need to be able to deal with the fact that there will always be people who are smarter than you (at least in some areas) and be able use that as motivation to learn more by yourself and from other people.

 

[Boolean Boogey]

It seems to me that being concerned with the superiority of your intelligence would distract from all the fun mathematics you should be studying. Well, personally, I have no degree right now but I do 4 or so hours of mathematics every night for fun and even I wouldn't consider getting a PhD at 30 (I am also 30 years old). Especially if you only want it to flaunt how intelligent you are, which to me sounds like part of why you want it.

I would suggest you do a bit of research before making this jump. As I see it you're claiming to be a mathematics fiend, so why not work out the actual probability of you being successful. It could be a fun chance to test out your risk assessment talents!

 

[tgt]

As many others have echoed in this thread already, only defining yourself by how you do in physics and maths is generally not going to be a good thing and you should also try to have other interests. Most mathematicians and physicists do have other interests just like normal people, some go to the gym, some play the piano, some like taking long walks. It is important to have several things in your life which you enjoy.

Yes, I have other interests but don't want to be a professional at them. However, do badly want to become a pro mathematician or physicist (more the former). So far, I am failing to become one and that really gets to me and the rest of my life and self worth. It's got to be demoralizing for a male to not able to earn a decent living (I know I could do something else in the real world but just don't have the motivation for it).

 

[micromass]

Yes, I have other interests but don't want to be a professional at them. However, do badly want to become a pro mathematician or physicist (more the former). So far, I am failing to become one and that really gets to me and the rest of my life and self worth. It's got to be demoralizing for a male to not able to earn a living (I know I could do something else in the real world but just don't have the motivation for it).

Not sure what being male has to do with it, but sure, it is demoralizing. Which is why your plans are strange since they're not exactly solid plans towards making a living.