There is no proper subgroup

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In summary, the conversation discusses the existence of a proper normal subgroup $H$ of a group $G$ that contains a $p$-Sylow subgroup $P$. It is shown that this is not possible, as it leads to a contradiction with the Frattini Argument. The conversation concludes with a question about the correctness of the argument.
  • #1
mathmari
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Hey! :eek:

Let $P$ be a $p$-Sylow subgroup in $G$ and $N=N_G(P)$.

I want to show that there is no proper normal subgroup $H$ of $G$ that contains $N$.
We suppose that there is a proper normal subgroup $H$ of $G$ that contains $N$, $$N\leq H<G$$

Then $[G:N]=[G:H][H:N]$, with $[G:H]>1$.

How can we find a contradicion? (Wondering)

Do we use the definition of a normal subgroup? (Wondering)
 
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  • #2
Do we maybe use Frattini Argument? (Wondering)

By Frattini Argument we have that $G=HN_G(P)$.

Since $H$ is a normal subgroup of $H$ and since $N_G(P)\leq H$, we have that $HN_G(P)\subseteq H \Rightarrow G\subseteq H$.

We have that $H\subseteq G$.

So, it holds that $G=H$. This is a contradiction, since $H$ is a proper subgroup of $G$. Is this correct? (Wondering)
 

1. What is a proper subgroup?

A proper subgroup is a subgroup of a larger group that is not equal to the larger group itself. In other words, a proper subgroup is a subset of a group that does not contain all the elements of the original group.

2. Why is there no proper subgroup?

There may be cases where there is no proper subgroup because the original group is a simple group, meaning it has no non-trivial normal subgroups. In other words, there are no proper subgroups that are invariant under the group's operation.

3. Can a group have more than one proper subgroup?

Yes, a group can have multiple proper subgroups. In fact, a group will always have at least two proper subgroups - the trivial subgroup (containing only the identity element) and the entire group itself. The number of proper subgroups a group has depends on the group's order.

4. How is a proper subgroup different from a subgroup?

A proper subgroup is a subgroup that is not equal to the larger group, while a subgroup is any subset of a group that is closed under the group's operation. In other words, a proper subgroup is a specific type of subgroup that does not contain all the elements of the original group.

5. What is an example of a group with no proper subgroup?

An example of a group with no proper subgroup is the cyclic group of prime order. This group only has two subgroups - the trivial subgroup and the entire group itself. Therefore, there is no proper subgroup within this group.

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