Time average vs. phase space average

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around computing and comparing the time average and phase space average of \(x^2\) for a harmonic oscillator, given a specific total energy \(E_0\). The participants are examining the definitions and implications of these averages within the context of the harmonic oscillator's Hamiltonian.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the calculation of the time average using the harmonic oscillator's position function and discuss the implications of the initial phase and amplitude on the averages. Questions arise regarding the dimensional correctness of the time average definition provided in the problem statement.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications regarding the amplitude calculation and the role of the initial phase in the averages. There is ongoing discussion about the potential typographical error in the definition of the time average, with suggestions for correction being made.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem set may contain a typographical error regarding the time average definition, which could affect the interpretation of the problem. The initial phase is also highlighted as a point of uncertainty, as it does not influence the average but is not explicitly defined in the problem.

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Homework Statement


For a given total energy E0 compute and compare a time average and a phase space average of x2 for the harmonic oscillator. The one-dimensional Hamiltonian is

[tex]H = \frac{p^2}{2m}+\frac{m\omega^2}{2}x^2[/tex]

Reminder: the time average is defined as

[tex]\langle x^2\rangle =\frac{1}{t}\int_0^t x^2\tau\,d\tau[/tex]

we will be mostly interested in the long time limit. The phase space average is

[tex]\overline{x}^2=\frac{\int\delta (E_0-H)x^2\,dx\,dp}{\int\delta (E_0-H)\,dx\,dp}[/tex]


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution

First, for the time average, all I can think of is that for a harmonic oscillator [tex]x = a\cos (\sqrt{k/m}t+\phi )[/tex]. I can then substitute this in the given integral for time average, which I can then evaluate. The problem is that I don't know what a and [tex]\phi[/tex] are given the information in the problem.

Any hints/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
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The amplitude a can be calclated since the energy E0 is given.
The initial phase [tex]\phi[/tex] doesn't affect the average x2.

By the way, the definition of the time average has wrong dimension. Is it a typing error?
 
Thank you for the reply.

Maxim Zh said:
The amplitude a can be calclated since the energy E0 is given.

Yes, I've now found out that [tex]E = (1/2)m\omega^2 A^2.[/tex]

Maxim Zh said:
By the way, the definition of the time average has wrong dimension. Is it a typing error?

Well, I've copied it exactly the way it shows up on the problem set, so maybe the professor made a typo?
 
The common time average definition is:

[tex] <f(t)> = \frac{1}{t} \int_0^t f(\tau)\,d\tau.[/tex]

May be the brackets around the [tex]\tau[/tex] are missed in your definition?
 
Okay, I see what you're saying; I agree it should be

[tex]\frac{1}{t}\int_0^t x^2(\tau)\,d\tau[/tex]

Thanks, I got it now.
 

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