Time coordinate in the rain frame

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on the challenges of understanding the time coordinate in the rain frame as presented in "Exploring Black Holes" by Taylor & Wheeler. The user is struggling with the calculation of dtrain, which yields negative results, indicating a potential error in the application of the metric. They compare their findings with the standard Schwarzschild metric, which also produces negative values, suggesting the need for incorporating c² into the rain metric. The user explores Gullstrand-Painlevé coordinates, noting that they yield reasonable results and maintain time-like geodesics up to the singularity, while the global rain frame metric transitions to space-like geodesics outside the event horizon. The discussion raises questions about the behavior of geodesics near the Schwarzschild radius, particularly regarding the transition point for time-like to space-like characteristics.
stevebd1
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I'm currently looking at Metric for the Rain Frame in 'Exploring Black Holes' by Taylor & Wheeler (page B-13) and while it's straightforward understanding drrain (which basically equals dr), I'm having a problem getting my head around dtrain. The following is a step-by-step approach but for some reason, the results I get from the metric are negative. (Attached is an extract from the book which shows the metric in full, hopefully this is acceptable).

from the book-

dt_{rain}=-v_{rel}\gamma dr_{shell}+\gamma dt_{shell}

where-

dr_{shell}=dr\left(1-\frac{2Gm}{rc^2}\right)^{-1/2}

dt_{shell}=dt\left(1-\frac{2Gm}{rc^2}\right)^{1/2}

v_{rel}=-\left(\frac{2Gm}{rc^2}\right)^{1/2}

\gamma \equiv \left(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2}\right)^{-1/2}=\left(1-\frac{2Gm}{rc^2}\right)^{-1/2}


Incorporating the above equations into the dtrain equation, I get-

dt_{rain}=\left(\frac{2Gm}{rc^2}\right)^{1/2} dr\left(1-\frac{2Gm}{rc^2}\right)^{-1} + dt

which tallies with equation 14 on page B-13.


Based on a 3 sol mass black hole (Rs=8861.1 m), r=11,000, dr=1 and dt=1, I get the following-

dt_{rain}=(0.897527 \times 5.142830)+1

dt_{rain}=5.615829


The metric for the rain frame (on a radial line only) is-

d\tau^2=\left(1-\frac{2Gm}{rc^2}\right)dt_{rain}^2 - 2\left(\frac{2Gm}{rc^2}\right)^{1/2}dt_{rain}dr -dr^2

The results I get here where dr=1 and dtrain=5.615829 are-

d\tau^2=(0.194445 \times 5.615829^2)-(1.795054 \times 5.615829)-1

d\tau^2=-4.948399


Obviously something is amiss here as dτ2 shouldn't be negative outside the event horizon.

I have a hunch I'm about 95% there but there's a mistake I'm making somewhere. I'd appreciate any feedback regarding getting this right.

Steve

_____________

UPDATE
I've applied the same black hole parameters and radius to standard Schwarzschild metric and I get (more or less) the same answer, dτ2=-4.948385. This is corrected by introducing c2 to dτ2 and dt2 providing an answer for dτ of 0.440959 (in standard Schwarzschild metric) which makes more sense. This tells me I need to incorporate c2 to the rain metric but when applied to both quantities of dtrain, the results are still negative.
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Having looked at a number of rain metrics, I thought the Gullstrand-Painlevé coordinates were the most accessible (rs=2Gm/c2 and θ=φ=0).

rain coordinates-

dt_r=dt+\sqrt{\frac{r_s}{r}}\left(1+\frac{r_s}{r}\right)^{-1}dr

dr_r=\left(1+\frac{r_s}{r}\right)^{-1}dr+\sqrt{\frac{r_s}{r}}\ dt


free-fall rain frame-

c^2d\tau^2=c^2dt_r^2 - dr_r^2


Global rain frame-

c^2d\tau^2=\left(1-\frac{r_s}{r}\right)c^2dt_r^2 - 2\sqrt{\frac{r_s}{r}}\ cdt_rdr - dr^2


The above 2 metrics appear to produce reasonable quantities for dτ. The free-fall rain frame metric remains time-like all the way to the singularity, representing the local frame of the infalling object, while the global rain frame metric becomes space-like at r<rs* with no geometric singularity at the event horizon. When introducing c2 to dτ and dtr in the global rain frame, it seemed reasonable to introduce c to -2\sqrt{\frac{r_s}{r}}\ cdt_rdr as this appears to take into account relativistic velocity.

*Looking at increments very close to the event horizon (1-|rs/r|=1x10-9) in the global rain frame metric, it appears that the change over from time-like to space-like geodesics doesn't occur exactly on the event horizon but somewhere just outside it which doesn't seem right, even when removing c from the second term of dtr, space-like geodesics technically occur outside the Schwarzschild radius.

Source- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullstrand-Painlev%C3%A9_coordinates"
 
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Having looked at other sources, it's pretty certain that c is introduced to the second term of dtr. For anyone who might be interested, I found this regarding Gullstrand-Painlevé coordinates and the Kerr solution-

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0805/0805.0206v1.pdf

I'd still be interested to hear anyones opinion regarding the fact that it appears that space-like geodesics occur just outside the Schwarzschild radius for the global rain frame metric (while it's a fraction of a mm for a small black hole, it balloons to about 50 metres for a SM BH of about 3.7 million sol mass).
 
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