Time derivative jump of the electric/magnetic field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of a jump in the time derivative of electric and magnetic fields, particularly in the context of charge conservation and boundary conditions in electromagnetic theory. Participants explore theoretical and mathematical perspectives, including the implications of Maxwell's Equations and the behavior of fields at spacetime boundaries.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a jump in the time derivative of the electric field implies instantaneous introduction or removal of electric charge, which would violate charge conservation.
  • Another participant raises the question of how a radio wave interacts with a wall, implying a potential practical scenario for the discussion.
  • A participant notes that Maxwell's Equations include time derivatives of electric and magnetic fields, prompting a consideration of their implications for the original question.
  • One participant expresses a doubt regarding boundary conditions for electromagnetic fields, specifically questioning the behavior of fields across an arbitrary spacetime surface and the mathematical treatment of jumps involving time vectors.
  • This participant proposes a mathematical formulation involving Clifford Algebra to analyze the jump between electromagnetic fields at different instants, suggesting that changes in material properties could affect field continuity.
  • There is a notion that in a charge-free medium, fields should remain continuous, although the participant acknowledges the need for a more rigorous treatment of the situation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as multiple competing views and uncertainties regarding the implications of time derivative jumps and boundary conditions remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the behavior of fields across spacetime surfaces and the implications of changing material properties, indicating a need for further exploration of these concepts.

vogtster
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So I just wanted to see if anyone could offer some suggestions. So in my mind this seems impossible, in the case of electric field a jump in time derivative of that field would indicated in my mind that electric charge was either introduced or removed from the system instantaneously which would violate conversation of electric charge. If you prescribe to the quantum mechanic perspective that magnetic charge exists, the same argument would hold the magnetic field, since magnetic charge would also have to be conserved. If you just assume gausses law of magnetism holds, then again, this would mean a magnetic monopole would be introduced to the system, which is also problematic.
I'm not sure if there is a rigorous mathematical argument for this though - or if this is just true based on empirical observation (similarly how gausses law of magnetism is derived)
I would very much appreciate some comments on this subject.
 
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What about a radio wave encountering a wall?
 
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Maxwell's Equations include equations for the time derivatives of both the electric and magnetic fields. What do they imply about your question?
 
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Coincidentally I have a similar doubt but probably it comes from a different perspective. The boundary conditions proposed for electromagnetic fields consider only a spatial normal term. But I want to know what happens with the jump in an arbitrary spacetime surface. Mathematically, we know what happens when we dot and cross a purely spatial vector with the jump of the electromagnetic field, but what happens when we dot and cross with a time vector? For instance, we ask: for the electric field at a given instant to another instant, what is the jump between a media that changes its properties at that point (maybe a nonlinear material)? In the formalism of Clifford Algebra (See John W. Arthur - Understanding Geometric Algebra for Electromagnetic Theory), I ask

$$ \vec{e}_t (E_2 - E_1) + \vec{e}_t (B_2 - B_1) = ? $$

Where ## E_2 ## and ## B_2 ## are the electromagnetic fields at the same spatial point of ## E_1 ## and ## B_1 ## but at an infinitesimal instant after. This is analogous to the jump between two material medium in space, but with the normal being a time vector.

Maybe we can derive something like this by applying the integral laws and considering a jump in ## \varepsilon ## and ## \mu ## from a given instant to another. Of course, this implies changing the constitutive laws of the material. In a similar spirit of the space normal, probably it will be a function of a charge and a current surface density (which in our spatial notion should appear as a sudden volumetric change of current or charge).

I physically think it's obvious that in a medium free of charges, the fields should be continuous, changing only speed of propagation. But maybe we need a more rigorous treatment just to be sure. Considering that charges cannot disappear, the situation where ## \rho ## would peak at a given volume would be physically impossible, but maybe a change in current?

Maybe this can give a new perspective to your problem.
 

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