News Tom DeLay: Indicted on conspiracy charges

[rachmaninoff]

[SOLVED] Tom DeLay: Indicted on conspiracy charges

DeLay Indicted in Texas Campaign Finance Probe
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Texas grand jury on Wednesday charged Rep. Tom DeLay and two political associates with conspiracy in a campaign finance scheme, an indictment that could force him to step down as House majority leader.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-DeLay-Investigation.html?hp&ex=1127966400&en=2cf6902ed6f45124&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Who's surprised?

 

[SOS2008]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-DeLay-Investigation.html?hp&ex=1127966400&en=2cf6902ed6f45124&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Who's surprised?

I was about to post this in the Republican Lies thread. I'm not surprised he is guilty, but I am surprised he has been indicted. Perhaps there is hope...

 

[pattylou]

Woo hoo! I did a rooster crow when I saw that on Google news and my five year old was so surprised - I haven't whooped at the news ever, in her memory.

 

[arildno]

Yet another criminal Republican. I'm not surprised.

 

[faust9]

Yet another criminal Republican. I'm not surprised.

Well, he IS innocent until proven guilty.
However, I FEEL he is a dirty rotten scoundrel

 

[arildno]

Well, he IS innocent until proven guilty.

So was Nixon and a gazillion of others from that crime factory.

 

[Tarheel]

My favorite quote from Kevin Madden (Delay's Spokesman)

“They could not get Tom DeLay at the polls. They could not get Mr. DeLay on the House floor. Now they’re trying to get him into the courtroom. This is not going to detract from the Republican agenda.”

Who is "they"? Must be the Democrat and Liberal trash that plaque us all

I wish he would elaborate on this "agenda" of theirs.

 

[2CentsWorth]

Well, he IS innocent until proven guilty.
However, I FEEL he is a dirty rotten scoundrel

Right, we know he's a dirty rotten scoundrel, and it's great to see the indictment...but will there be a conviction?

 

[edward]

Delay is now qualified for the Freedom medal.

 

[arildno]

Hopefully, it will be shown that he fulfills the criteria of the three-strikes-rule..

 

[TRCSF]

Yet another criminal Republican. I'm not surprised.

"The criminal indictment of Majority Leader Tom Delay is the latest example that Republicans in Congress are plagued by a culture of corruption at the expense of the American people."

-Nancy Pelosi

 

[faust9]

What's funny is DeLay has been smacked down a couple of times for ethics violations and now suddenly it's a conspiracy against him. There are a bunch of people in Washington with the crimal "Not my fault" mentality these days.

This is funny---the truth hurts some times: http://www.mikehersh.com/Tom_DeLays_Ethics_Violations.shtml

 

[Echo 6 Sierra]

Isn't there a get out of jail free loophole for Legislators "while performing the duties of their office" or is that just a State thing?

 

[faust9]

Isn't there a get out of jail free loophole for Legislators "while performing the duties of their office" or is that just a State thing?

That has nothing to do with the current fiasco. DeLay founded nd ran a PAC which took donations from corporations in violation of Texas law. DeLay is begin charged with conspiracy in connection to trying to hide these deals from not for passing a law that resulted in a death or injury. The charges are not connected to the office, they are connected to the man.

Also, it's all the democrats fault: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64194-2005Apr18.html

 

[Informal Logic]

That has nothing to do with the current fiasco. DeLay founded nd ran a PAC which took donations from corporations in violation of Texas law. DeLay is begin charged with conspiracy in connection to trying to hide these deals from not for passing a law that resulted in a death or injury. The charges are not connected to the office, they are connected to the man.

Also, it's all the democrats fault: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64194-2005Apr18.html

According to one of the links I was reading in the thread about Republican lies, there has been an unspoken agreement between the two parties not to pursue investigations. I believe this is a result of grass root petitions, letters, etc. either by constituents and/or private organizations. When the checks and balances of the governmental system fails, it is up to the people to demand corrections, and perhaps they are.

 

[Manchot]

I love how Delay's lawyers love to put the blame on an "overzealous prosecutor," but they ignore the fact that the grand jury also decided to indict him.

If he is convicted, you know that he'll be pardoned anyway.

 

[Informal Logic]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9507677/

A defiant DeLay insisted he was innocent and called the prosecutor a “partisan fanatic.”

“I have done nothing wrong. ... I am innocent,”

That is so...criminal like.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I lilke how they are accusing the DA of partisanship. In fact he has prosecuted more Democrats than Republicans; which is no small challenge in Texas.

I was sleeping and could hear the TV, and it was the first thing that I heard today. It's the first time that I've woke up smiling in a long time.

Finally, finally, finally...

 

[faust9]

I love how Delay's lawyers love to put the blame on an "overzealous prosecutor," but they ignore the fact that the grand jury also decided to indict him.

If he is convicted, you know that he'll be pardoned anyway.

Man I would love to watch him get goose-stepped all the way to the gulag; however, I too expect a Bush pardon following an unfavorable verdict.

 

[russ_watters]

Happy to see him go - he can take Frist with him.

 

[faust9]

Happy to see him go - he can take Frist with him.

Frist seems to be doing a good job of ending his political career himself. No need for the Texas exterminator to get involved in the Frist affair.

 

[Informal Logic]

Man I would love to watch him get goose-stepped all the way to the gulag; however, I too expect a Bush pardon following an unfavorable verdict.

People are tired of investigations into DeLay's activities (not to mention the repeated cost to the tax payers). If he is not convicted it will have negative repercussions for the Republican party, and they know it. It would just be another Bush bungle if he let's DeLay squirm out again.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Did anyone notice that DeLay stuttered when he tried so say "I have violated no law". Stuttering like that is one indicator of a lie.

 

[SOS2008]

Frist seems to be doing a good job of ending his political career himself. No need for the Texas exterminator to get involved in the Frist affair.

Wait, isn't DeLay the exterminator, and Bush the terminator (as in executioner?)

 

[Manchot]

People are tired of investigations into DeLay's activities (not to mention the repeated cost to the tax payers). If he is not convicted it will have negative repercussions for the Republican party, and they know it. It would just be another Bush bungle if he let's DeLay squirm out again.

I have never understood this "cost to the taxpayers" argument. The judges, prosecutors, bailiffs, and clerks are paid regardless of whether they are prosecuting Tom DeLay or not.

On a side note, according to MSNBC, the grand jury's foreman, William Gibson, had this to say:

The grand jury’s foreman, William Gibson, told The Associated Press that Earle didn’t pressure members one way or the other. “Ronnie Earle didn’t indict him. The grand jury indicted him,” Gibson told The Associated Press in an interview at his home.

Gibson, 76, a retired sheriff’s deputy in Austin, said of DeLay: “He’s probably doing a good job. I don’t have anything against him. Just something happened.”

 

[SOS2008]

I have never understood this "cost to the taxpayers" argument. The judges, prosecutors, bailiffs, and clerks are paid regardless of whether they are prosecuting Tom DeLay or not.

On a side note, according to MSNBC, the grand jury's foreman, William Gibson, had this to say:

I think that was in reference to the cost of investigations:

Since then, 21 special investigations have been launched, with seven leading to convictions and five still active. The total cost passed $166 million through the last fiscal year.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/06/30/ic.history/index.html

 

[rachmaninoff]

I think that was in reference to the cost of investigations:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/06/30/ic.history/index.html

That's the total cost of the Independent Counsel Act, over the past 27 years.

 

[loseyourname]

I'm going to have to cast my bet in the hat that says nothing happens to DeLay. As rotten as he may be, he doesn't seem to be guilty of conspiracy. After watching several channels of partisan bickering, Dan Abrams finally gave a legal analysis of the indictment and called it one of the weakest he's ever seen. DeLay is almost certainly guilty of bad ethical practices, but it seems his campaign used legitimate loopholes that everybody was using and there is no evidence of his personal involvement.

I wouldn't start the cheering just yet. Earle could very well just be making a damn fool of himself. Good luck to him, though.

 

[SOS2008]

That's the total cost of the Independent Counsel Act, over the past 27 years.

And getting more and more expensive:

The Clintons' lawyer, David Kendall, called the report "the most expensive exoneration in history. Their investigation was unprecedented in its seven-year length, $70 million expense and unremitting intensity. But it ends as it began: with no evidence of any wrongdoing by the Clintons." The investigation began in 1994 and ended in 2000.

http://multimedia.cbs.com/stories/2002/03/20/politics/main504201.shtml

I suppose $70 million isn't much these days, but multiply that by what ever number of investigations may be ongoing at any given time (unfortunately often overlapping) and ask the tax payers how they feel about it.

 

[rachmaninoff]

And getting more and more expensive:

http://multimedia.cbs.com/stories/2002/03/20/politics/main504201.shtml

I suppose $70 million isn't much these days, but multiply that by what ever number of investigations may be ongoing at any given time (unfortunately often overlapping) and ask the tax payers how they feel about it.

Don't multiply it by more than two - the total 27-year cost you posted above was $166 million. Sounds reasonable to me; the GAO audits everything, of course (try googling "GAO financial audit independent counsel" to get a list of audits).

 

[rachmaninoff]

Here's a gem:

""What we do here is more important than who we are..."

-Rep. Roy Blunt (R-MO), the new House majority leader replacing DeLay, on his indictment
New York Times, 9/29

 

[SOS2008]

Don't multiply it by more than two - the total 27-year cost you posted above was $166 million. Sounds reasonable to me; the GAO audits everything, of course (try googling "GAO financial audit independent counsel" to get a list of audits).

The first post was between Watergate to Whitewater. How many investigations are there at this time? At least five, maybe ten? As stated, it's not a lot in comparison to other issues such as the cost for Iraq, but there is a cost.

 

[Astronuc]

I love how Delay's lawyers love to put the blame on an "overzealous prosecutor," but they ignore the fact that the grand jury also decided to indict him.

Ronnie Earle may be zealous - but it was a Grand Jury which indicted Delay. Obviously Earle made a reasonable case to the Jury.

http://www.co.travis.tx.us/district_attorney/default.asp

http://www.ronnieearle.com/index2.html

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Not to mention that he has prosecuted 12 democrats, and 3 republicans. The case is more easily made that he's working against the democrats.

 

[loseyourname]

When DeLay's defense attorney was on the Abrams report, he explained that he is contending Earle goes after his political enemies, not Republicans specifically.

 

[faust9]

Earle gets a little help from the Grand Jury Foreman: http://www.news8austin.com/content/your_news/default.asp?ArID=146685

Go figure! Anywho, a thing like this is enough to end a career. Oh, what ever happened to the "Contract With America" once spearheaded by the republicans and DeLay? Hmmm...

 

[Manchot]

When DeLay's defense attorney was on the Abrams report, he explained that he is contending Earle goes after his political enemies, not Republicans specifically.

Well, do you think that Earle would be a Democrat if he had many political enemies who were also Democrats?

Oh, by the way, I found one line of this article extremely funny:

But Earle also likes to say that power cannot be abused by those who lack it, and for much of his career, Democrats dominated Texas politics. His supporters cite a list of Democratic officials who were convicted or pleaded guilty after Earle prosecuted them. They include a state legislator from El Paso in 2000, and two from Waco in 1995; a San Antonio voter registrar in 1992; and the state treasurer in 1982. Earle even prosecuted himself in 1983, paying a $212 fine for tardy campaign finance disclosure filings.

LOL! On a serious note, this guy seems like a very straight shooter. I just hope that the spin machine doesn't completely ruin his career.

 

[faust9]

And now for something completely different---Money Laundering.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/p...&en=4f9466e0dd81f78c&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Man, those partisan Grand Juries (plural as in more than one as in multiple juries with an S) are just out of control! How dare those democrats pack Juries (with an S) with nothing but democrats hell bent on slandering Tom DeLay. How dare they go after poor poor Mr. Innocent DeLay---He was only abmonished for ethics violations three times give a guy a break!

 

[Informal Logic]

And now for something completely different---Money Laundering.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/03/p...&en=4f9466e0dd81f78c&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Man, those partisan Grand Juries (plural as in more than one as in multiple juries with an S) are just out of control! How dare those democrats pack Juries (with an S) with nothing but democrats hell bent on slandering Tom DeLay. How dare they go after poor poor Mr. Innocent DeLay---He was only abmonished for ethics violations three times give a guy a break!

Yet DeLay vows he will continue leadership in the GOP (I understand he keeps a little blackmail book, so who knows). Even if he is never convicted, Republicans are growing tired of the liability. I hope the charges keep coming until there is a conviction to wipe that cocky grin off his face.

 

[faust9]

Yet DeLay vows he will continue leadership in the GOP (I understand he keeps a little blackmail book, so who knows). Even if he is never convicted, Republicans are growing tired of the liability. I hope the charges keep coming until there is a conviction to wipe that cocky grin off his face.

I think this indictment along with the revelation that Earle has prosecuted mor dems than elephants is enough to wipe the grin off of the exterminators face.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/03/delay.indictment/index.html

In a written statement, DeLay called the indictment another example of "prosecutorial abuse" by District Attorney Ronnie Earle.

"He is trying to pull the legal equivalent of a 'do-over,' since he knows very well that the charges he brought against me last week are totally manufactured and illegitimate," said the Texas Republican. "This is an abomination of justice."

The fact that the first Grand Jury foreman said "Hey moron! We, the Grand Jury, indicted you not Earle!" or something like that hushed Delay initially. His grandstanding immediatly following the indictment died down to a dull roar following the Foreman's statements. I think this second little briar patch of trouble will hush DeLay a little more. Hopefully he will become Kryptonite to DC movers and shakers over the next day or three.

 

[Astronuc]

Yet another indictment. I heard the money laundering indicment came from a different grand jury.

Grand Jury Indicts DeLay on New Charges ( http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051004/ap_on_go_co/delay_indictment )

AUSTIN, Texas - Rep. Tom DeLay was indicted for a second time in less than a week by a Texas grand jury looking into campaign contributions, a development the former U.S. House majority leader called "an abomination of justice."

Defense lawyers asked a judge Monday to throw out the first indictment, arguing that the charge of conspiring to violate campaign finance laws was based on a statute that didn't take effect until 2003 — a year after the acts in question.

Can't prosecute DeLay if that is the case. Ex post facto.

 

[faust9]

More trouble for DeLay?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/10/04/MNGNDF28O21.DTL

The new indictment was issued as Bush administration officials confirmed news reports in London that the Justice Department has asked British police to question former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher about the circumstances of her meeting in 2000 with DeLay during a lavish trip to Britain organized by Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

The interview request was the first publicly disclosed evidence from the Justice Department that DeLay is under scrutiny in the department's wide-ranging corruption investigation of Abramoff.

This is simply HILARIOUS !

The sequence of Monday's events make clear that neither side is prepared to back down from confrontation. At about noon, DeLay attorney Dick DeGuerin wrote in a letter to Earle: "I request . . . you immediately agree to dismiss this indictment so that the political consequences can be reversed." The response, from Earle, was instead to expand the allegations.

 

[kat]

curious...what's the difference between this investigation and that of Peolosi's?

 

[Informal Logic]

curious...what's the difference between this investigation and that of Peolosi's?

Originally Posted by kat
Just curious...for those who've had more time then I lately...
Who on the GOP side has been indicted other then Delay...and how many have been convicted in the last year?

and then..on the Dem side?

It sounds like you know the answer.

This is the sort of thing I am asking for. (The OP says something like "I am sure there are democratic examples as well") By all means, you are under no obligation to add the information you have. But if you would I'd appreciate it.

thanks Kat.

Here's a link: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050504-122024-4420r.htm

"The Republicans are yet again attempting to muddy the waters to divert attention from their pattern of abusing of power," spokeswoman Jennifer Crider said yesterday.

Perhaps Pelosi is being a hypocrite...or is this more of the 'he is bad, but so are they' type of argument, and a very old one.

 

[BobG]

DeLay has been charged with a criminal offense. Pelosi's offense would be more similar to an NCAA rules violation. Actually, you could slam a great deal of Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and, yes, even Naderites, if you went through the entire http://www.fec.gov/press/press2005/2005news.shtml.

Edit: By the way, DeLay isn't actually guilty of a criminal offense, yet. On the surface, it sounds more similar to other FEC violations unless some more incriminating details emerge.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Apparently he could get up to life in prison!

 

[BobG]

If you read the indictment, it would be hard to categorize it as an accidental technical rules violation. When they sent the corporate money to the RNC, they were very specific about who and how much each RNC check to Texas candidates should be. It would be hard to consider it anything besides an intentional circumventing of Texas law.

If it is a legal loophole, it pretty much makes Texas campaign laws (and other states campaign laws) a meaningless exercise in futility.

 

[faust9]

If you read the indictment, it would be hard to categorize it as an accidental technical rules violation. When they sent the corporate money to the RNC, they were very specific about who and how much each RNC check to Texas candidates should be. It would be hard to consider it anything besides an intentional circumventing of Texas law.

If it is a legal loophole, it pretty much makes Texas campaign laws (and other states campaign laws) a meaningless exercise in futility.

I.E. Conspiracy and money laundering . I had a much longer response to your original post but the god forsaken Windows PC locked up when I was in the middle of typing(I blame MS for an error that was most likely related to UG).

 

[faust9]

In his radio comments on Tuesday, Mr. DeLay offered a new insight on the case, saying he made a mistake in a voluntary interview with the prosecutor's office a few weeks ago that helped prompt the indictments.

He would not discuss his mistake in detail, but it apparently concerned the $190,000 check that is central to the case. Mr. Earle charges that the money, which included money from corporate interests in Texas, was turned over to the Republican National Committee with instructions to return $190,000 to designated candidates for the Texas Legislature. The accusation is that the transaction was intended to circumvent a prohibition on the use of corporate money in state races.

"I misspoke one sentence, and they have based all of this on one sentence," Mr. DeLay told Mr. Limbaugh. "They think that before the check was cut and sent to the national committee that I approved this check. I didn't know this went on until well after it happened."

Riiiight...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/05/politics/05delay.html