Transformers and iron cores and frequency

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of soft iron cores in transformers, particularly focusing on their impact on mutual inductance, magnetic field density, eddy currents, and the frequency of the secondary voltage. Participants explore theoretical aspects and practical implications related to transformer design and operation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the rate of change of current in the primary coil ($$\frac{dI}{dt}$$) is crucial in the process of mutual inductance, and they question how a soft iron core affects this rate.
  • There is a suggestion that soft iron cores increase the density of the magnetic field inside the primary coil, but the implications for $$\frac{dI}{dt}$$ remain unclear.
  • One participant notes that using iron cores can create eddy currents, which lead to power losses, and questions whether these effects could increase the frequency of the secondary voltage.
  • Another participant provides information about the composition of transformer cores, mentioning that they are often made from an alloy of iron and silicon to minimize hysteresis losses, and clarifies that the term "soft iron" may not be technically accurate.
  • It is noted that laminations in the core help reduce eddy currents, but some will still be present and are viewed as a loss rather than a contributor to secondary voltage.
  • A question is raised about whether the frequency of the secondary voltage will increase, prompting a response that indicates it will not, attributing frequency changes in large power systems to generator operation rather than transformer characteristics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effects of soft iron cores on mutual inductance and secondary voltage frequency. While some agree on the role of eddy currents and hysteresis losses, there is no consensus on the impact of these factors on the frequency of the secondary voltage.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss various assumptions regarding the properties of transformer cores, the nature of eddy currents, and the relationship between primary and secondary voltages without resolving these complexities.

IWantToLearn
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As far as i understand the thing that matter in all of the process of mutual inductance is the rate of change of the current in the primary coil $$\frac{dI}{dt}$$
butting soft iron core will increase the density of the magnetic field inside the primary coil, but how this will effect $$\frac{dI}{dt}$$ , now the question is "What is the reason we use soft iron core?"

Second using these iron cores will create eddy currents, and causes power losses
but could this effect will also cause increasing the frequency of the secondary voltage ?
 
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IWantToLearn said:
As far as i understand the thing that matter in all of the process of mutual inductance is the rate of change of the current in the primary coil $$\frac{dI}{dt}$$
butting soft iron core will increase the density of the magnetic field inside the primary coil, but how this will effect $$\frac{dI}{dt}$$ , now the question is "What is the reason we use soft iron core?"

Second using these iron cores will create eddy currents, and causes power losses
but could this effect will also cause increasing the frequency of the secondary voltage ?

Most power transformer core's are an alloy of Iron and Silicon that has been cold rolled, they're referred to as a "CRGOS" core (Cold Rolled Grain Oriented Silicon Steel). The main goal behind all that is to rid the transformer core of Hysteresis losses: The cold rolling orients the grain of the ferromagnetic material so that hysteresis is kept at a minimum; the addition of silicon was found to also decrease the hysteresis and create a highly permeable material, cutting down on magnetization losses. I've never heard it referred to as "soft iron," but I suppose it could be.

Laminations in the core eliminate much of the eddy currents, but there will always be some present. I view eddy currents as currents that don't really have a rhyme or reason, they're simply a byproduct of losing something from a more useful attribute; they would not add to the voltage of the secondary in any appreciable way.
 
Last edited:
What about the frequency of the secondary voltage?
it will increase?
 
IWantToLearn said:
What about the frequency of the secondary voltage?
it will increase?

No. In large scale power systems load currents can cause frequency to fall, but this is due to generator operation and not transformer characteristics.
 

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