Transmission lines/electrical propogation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the propagation of electricity in transmission lines and coaxial cables, exploring concepts such as impedance, capacitance, and the differences in behavior between low and high frequency signals. Participants express curiosity about how electricity propagates, particularly in relation to the use of multiple conductors versus a single lead.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how electricity propagates, suggesting that it might be possible over a single lead if connected to ground, and inquires about the role of inductance and capacitance in this context.
  • Another participant explains that using two wires reduces electromagnetic interference and power loss, noting that short wires can radiate power as RF signals if not paired, particularly at high frequencies.
  • It is stated that the inductance and capacitance of conductors are crucial for determining the characteristic impedance, which is important for impedance matching to minimize signal loss.
  • One participant asserts that transmission line theory primarily applies to high frequency signal propagation, while low frequency signals have different transmission requirements.
  • A participant expresses gratitude for the clarification provided but remains uncertain about how electricity propagates at low frequency or DC, beyond the concept of drift velocity.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the term "electricity" is vague and suggests that understanding electrical circuits requires a deeper comprehension of the underlying concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and uncertainty, particularly regarding the propagation of electricity at low frequencies versus high frequencies. There is no consensus on the implications of using a single lead for propagation or the meaning of "electricity" in this context.

Contextual Notes

Some terms and concepts discussed may depend on specific definitions and assumptions that are not fully articulated, leading to potential misunderstandings. The complexity of electrical circuits is acknowledged, with participants noting that common terminology may not accurately reflect the underlying physics.

Darren93
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We have just started to look at transmission lines/coaxial cables in one of my classes. This uses the concept of having 2 wires close together causing an impedance/capacitance that allows/controls propagation. However I have never really considered how electricity propagates in the first place. Surely electricity could propagate over 1 lead if the respective terminals where connected to ground? In these models that would be impossible. How does electricity propagate typically? Is it affected by the inductance/capacitance between two leads? Or is the transmission line theory just for high frequency signal propagation?
 
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Two wires are used because it reduces electromagnetic interference from nearby electronics and reduces the power loss due to the conductors radiating at the signal frequency (among other reasons). Even short wires will radiate a large portion of their power outwards as an RF signal if they aren't paired with a second wire, since they are effectively acting as an antenna. Low frequency signals don't suffer this problem nearly as much since it is much, much harder to radiate a low frequency signal compared to a high frequency signal.

The inductance/capacitance of the conductors is very important. It determines the characteristic impedance of the line, which is necessary to know for impedance matching to avoid power and signal loss in the form of reflected and standing waves.

Darren93 said:
Or is the transmission line theory just for high frequency signal propagation?

It's for high frequency signal propagation. Low frequency signals have different requirements when it comes to effectively transmitting them down a conductor.
 
Thanks very much! You answered 80% of what I was confused about in 1 post. I wasn't expecting that at all, thanks for taking the time to do so. I'm still unsure how electricity propagates at low frequency/dc along a lead other than at the drift velocity. That's a completely different question and requires some more research.
 
Darren93 said:
I'm still unsure how electricity propagates at low frequency/dc along a lead other than at the drift velocity.

Well, the first thing you'd need to understand is that "electricity" is a meaningless term. Electrical charges move to form electrical current, voltage can propagate or change, but "electricity" does nothing. It means nothing. It's simply a catch-all term for anything related to electrical circuits.

Electrical circuits (including transmission lines) is a complicated subject when you get into the details, so don't feel bad if you don't understand something. Many of the terms and concepts you've learned growing up are either utterly meaningless or downright wrong when you actually learn the subject.
 

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