Triplet States and Wave Functions

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of triplet states and their corresponding wave functions in quantum mechanics, particularly focusing on the relationship between spatial and spin wave functions for fermions. Participants explore the implications of symmetry and antisymmetry in these wave functions, as well as the physical interpretations of additive and subtractive combinations in the context of a hydrogen molecule.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the triplet state space wave function is defined as subtractive, while the spin wave function is additive, and how this relates to their respective symmetry properties.
  • It is noted that the total wavefunction for fermions must be antisymmetric, implying that if the spin wavefunction is symmetric (as in triplet states), the spatial wavefunction must be antisymmetric, and vice versa.
  • Participants express confusion over the implications of adding and subtracting components in wavefunctions, particularly in relation to molecular orbitals (MOs) and spins.
  • There is a discussion about the physical meaning of the antisymmetric spatial wave function being paired with the triplet spin state, and the distinction between triplet and singlet states being applicable only to spin states.
  • One participant raises a question about the implications of the wave function [α(1)β(2)-β(1)α(2)], noting that it indicates the two particles cannot occupy the same state.
  • Another participant clarifies that the coefficients in the wave function can be complex, and that states are represented as vectors in Hilbert space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the symmetry properties of wave functions and their implications. Some agree on the necessity of antisymmetry for fermions, while others challenge or seek clarification on specific aspects, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved on certain points.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the nature of the wave functions and the specific quantum systems being referenced, particularly in the context of the hydrogen molecule.

sungholee
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Why is the triplet state space wave function ΨT1=[1σ*(r1)1σ(r2)-1σ(r1)1σ*(r2)] (ie. subtractive)? How does it relate to its antisymmetric nature?

Also, why is this opposite for the spin wave function α(1)β(2)+β(1)α(2) (ie. additive)? And why is this one symmetric even though it describes the triplet state?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The total wavefunction including both space and spin degrees of freedom for a fermion must be antisymmetric. If the wavefunction were to be written as a product between the spatial and spin wavefunctions, the preceding statement implies that these two wavefunctions must have opposite symmetry nature. Namely, if the spin wavefunction is symmetric (e.g. triplet states) then the spatial wavefunction must be antisymmetric and vice versa.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I understand that, but I still don't understand why the triplet state for the space is subtractive and for the spin is additive. As in, the product of the two would still be antisymmetric even if the triplet state for the space was additive and for the spin subtractive, but why is that not the case?
 
sungholee said:
I understand that, but I still don't understand why the triplet state for the space is subtractive and for the spin is additive. As in, the product of the two would still be antisymmetric even if the triplet state for the space was additive and for the spin subtractive, but why is that not the case?
I think you should specify which quantum system you are talking about. As you noted, the second possibility with the substractive spin state (such a state is commonly called singlet spin state) is also possible.
 
For a H2 molecule (for the independent particle model, if that matters).

I guess what I might really be asking then is the physical implication of adding and subtracting the components? (the MOs and the spins) in the wavefunctions.
 
As in, I understand that the addition leads to symmetric and the subtraction leads to antisymmetric, but how does that relate to the singlet and triplet states?
 
Actually, I think I just understood it. The single-triplet thing is derived from the spin wave functions and due to fermions having to be antisymmetric overall, only the antisymmetric space wave function can be the triplet for a hydrogen molecule. As opposed to the space wave function itself having a singlet or triplet characteristic. Is that correct?
 
sungholee said:
only the antisymmetric space wave function can be the triplet for a hydrogen molecule.
Yes, only antisymmetric spatial wavefunction can be paired with the triplet spin state.
sungholee said:
As opposed to the space wave function itself having a singlet or triplet characteristic.
The triplet-singlet terms are exclusively used for spin states, because it has to do with the manifold the states exhibit regarding their total spin. For spatial wavefunction, using triplet-singlet term is a misuse. Anyway, I still don't see why you are not allowed to have symmetric spatial paired with a singlet spin state. It's equally allowed as that with the triplet spin state, the only difference is the energy.
 
Thanks, everything makes so much more sense now haha. But what do you mean by
blue_leaf77 said:
I still don't see why you are not allowed to have symmetric spatial paired with a singlet spin state
?

Also, final question related to this: what exactly does [α(1)β(2)-β(1)α(2)] imply? I suppose that [α(1)β(2)+β(1)α(2)] means the sum of the two possible spin states (up,down and down,up) which explains the summation but how can we subtract spin states?
 
  • #10
sungholee said:
what exactly does [α(1)β(2)-β(1)α(2)] imply?
That means the two particles cannot be in the same state, if you force ##\alpha = \beta##, the wavefunction will vanish.
sungholee said:
I suppose that [α(1)β(2)+β(1)α(2)] means the sum of the two possible spin states (up,down and down,up) which explains the summation but how can we subtract spin states?
The coefficients can even be complex. The thing is, a state is described as a vector in Hilbert space and the coefficient of each basis vector is a complex scalar.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 61 ·
3
Replies
61
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K