Trouble understanding Newtons first law and f=ma

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding Newton's first and second laws of motion, particularly the concepts of force, momentum, and the implications of collisions between objects. Participants explore the definitions and interpretations of these laws, focusing on the relationship between force, mass, and acceleration.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that an object moving at a constant velocity has no acceleration and therefore no force, questioning how it can exert force on another object during a collision.
  • Another participant counters that Newton's second law can be expressed as the change in momentum over time, suggesting that object A has momentum and transfers some of it to object B upon impact.
  • A third participant emphasizes that force is not an inherent property of an object, clarifying that while object A may not experience forces while moving at a constant velocity, a force does occur at the moment of impact with object B.
  • One participant expresses appreciation for the clarification, noting that Newton's laws are often better understood in terms of momentum rather than the force equation F=ma.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit some agreement on the importance of momentum in understanding Newton's laws, but there remains disagreement regarding the interpretation of force in the context of constant velocity and collisions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential confusion regarding the definitions of force and momentum, as well as the conditions under which forces are applied during collisions. The nuances of these concepts are not fully resolved.

zsawyer
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In reading Newtons first law,
An object at rest or in motion will remain the same unless acted on by an outside force.

also known and understood in Newtons 2nd is
Force = mass x acceleration.

An object "A" moving at a constant velocity has no acceleration therefor no force.
Object "B" is stationary. When object A hits object B, B will cease to be stationary.

Where did the force to move object B come from if A has no force?
 
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Actually Newton's 2nd law is F=dp/t (change in momentum over time), so object A has mommentum, and loses some which is given to B.
 
zsawyer said:
In reading Newtons first law,
An object at rest or in motion will remain the same unless acted on by an outside force.

also known and understood in Newtons 2nd is
Force = mass x acceleration.

An object "A" moving at a constant velocity has no acceleration therefor no force.
Object "B" is stationary. When object A hits object B, B will cease to be stationary.

Where did the force to move object B come from if A has no force?

Force isn't an inherent property of an object. That's your error - your statement that "An object 'A' moving at a constant velocity has no acceleration therefore no force" sounds like you are assuming that an object can have an inherent "force" that it can transmit to other objects.

In your example, while object A is moving at a constant velocity, there are no forces acting on it, but when it hits object B, there is definitely a force that occurs at impact, which serves to both slow down object A and accelerate object B. The exact details of the collision are somewhat complicated, depending on the properties of each object, but there is definitely a force that occurs between them at impact.
 
Your what I could not quite manifest in my mind. Thanks.

Got it. Newtons laws are best explained in terms of momentum, some reason F = ma sticks out more in high school text. Force is not an inherent property.
 

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