Turning a friend into a girlfriend

[WhoWee]

This is the original post "I'm one of her best friends, she tells me about her boyfriends, her problems, everything, She text-messages me almost everyday. We hang out together at her place, cook together, watch dvds. I make her laugh, comfort her when she is down, whole program. I'm not ugly, either. But still we are just friends. It sucks.

She is very cute, she constantly has men chasing after her. She also has the problem becoming friendly with men since they rather would turn her into their girlfriend than becoming friends.

So just telling her, I think would not do. She sees me 100 percent as her friend.

So what to do? How can I get out of the friendship zone?"

The female in this scenario is uncomfortable with advances from friends. Adding a little alcohol to loosen her up and facilitate making a move is just plain bad advice. He's already "in", he doesn't need to penetrate her inner circle and gain her trust - but he does need to keep it.

On the other hand, if he doesn't respect her feelings, doesn't care about their friendship, and is only concerned about improving his odds of scoring - he can get drunk and act like a fool, then blame it on the alcohol. But somehow, I think she might deserve better and he will regret his behavior in the future.

 

[junglebeast]

The female in this scenario is uncomfortable with advances from friends. Adding a little alcohol to loosen her up and facilitate making a move is just plain bad advice. He's already "in", he doesn't need to penetrate her inner circle and gain her trust - but he does need to keep it.

Note: never offer wine or champagne to WhoWee on a romantic evening. He/she is liable to think you are trying to take advantage.

 

[Mk]

Once one reaches the legal limit, then one's judgement is impaired (legally and otherwise), and one's ability to consent is impaired (void), i.e. legally one cannot consent.

Every single drink the plaintiff took from the first to the last was his or her own decision, and the plaintiff thus chose to be physically impaired. Responsibility is never excluded because of poor decision-making.

 

[WhoWee]

Note: never offer wine or champagne to WhoWee on a romantic evening. He/she is liable to think you are trying to take advantage.

WhoWee is about 6'3"/250 pounds and has a wife - so just keep your hands (and lips) to yourself.

You made an interesting distinction though - when you said "on a romantic evening". However, she won't know it's a romantic evening until he makes his move and springs his surprise. I rate his odds at less than 50%.

Alternatively, I think he'd do a lot better with a bowl of popcorn, a movie, a blanket, low lighting, a turned down thermostat and good timing. If he waits until the situation generally does feel right and point out the obvious - that "hey this feels great"-> get a positive response (doesn't it?) -> then, I just realized I like being with you more than all of the girls I've been dating -> and get another positive response -> then, gradually move the conversation forward.

He might even point out one of the many movies where long lost relatives kissed and said yuck! Maybe propose a simple kissing test (while under a blanket, talking softly, in close proximity) if there's no magic -> laugh it off and make a huge joke out of it - and don't go there again. Even if she likes the kiss - go slow, tell her he wants to be sure, not ruin the friendship and let her declare herself. When she's ready, it will be well worth the effort.

A good salesman sells the whole package, gets a lot of small positive responses, deals with all of the questions and concerns and moves to a logical conclusion - the deal has to be a win-win for all. By taking small steps they will both figure out what they want. Who knows, she might kiss like a camel?

 

[Mk]

Alternatively, I think he'd do a lot better with a bowl of popcorn, a movie, a blanket, low lighting, a turned down thermostat and good timing. If he waits until the situation generally does feel right and point out the obvious - that "hey this feels great"-> get a positive response (doesn't it?) -> then, I just realized I like being with you more than all of the girls I've been dating -> and get another positive response -> then, gradually move the conversation forward.

He might even point out one of the many movies where long lost relatives kissed and said yuck! Maybe propose a simple kissing test (while under a blanket, talking softly, in close proximity) if there's no magic -> laugh it off and make a huge joke out of it - and don't go there again. Even if she likes the kiss - go slow, tell her he wants to be sure, not ruin the friendship and let her declare herself. When she's ready, it will be well worth the effort.

You're a Love machine, WhoWee. :!)

 

[Galteeth]

This is the original post "I'm one of her best friends, she tells me about her boyfriends, her problems, everything, She text-messages me almost everyday. We hang out together at her place, cook together, watch dvds. I make her laugh, comfort her when she is down, whole program. I'm not ugly, either. But still we are just friends. It sucks.

She is very cute, she constantly has men chasing after her. She also has the problem becoming friendly with men since they rather would turn her into their girlfriend than becoming friends.

So just telling her, I think would not do. She sees me 100 percent as her friend.

So what to do? How can I get out of the friendship zone?"

The female in this scenario is uncomfortable with advances from friends. Adding a little alcohol to loosen her up and facilitate making a move is just plain bad advice. He's already "in", he doesn't need to penetrate her inner circle and gain her trust - but he does need to keep it.

On the other hand, if he doesn't respect her feelings, doesn't care about their friendship, and is only concerned about improving his odds of scoring - he can get drunk and act like a fool, then blame it on the alcohol. But somehow, I think she might deserve better and he will regret his behavior in the future.

I agree with WhoWe's point here. In this context, it is definitely wrong. Real world morality, especially sexual morality, is very dependent on context and nuance. Unfortunately, I think there are many men who have a very difficult time understanding these things. I think it is partially because of a cultural approach that implies a collectivist view of women. The phrase "what women really want" for example implies that everyone in the category of "women" must want the same things by membership in tha group. This is absurd, just like it would be absurd to say what "black" people want or what "white" people want or whatever.

This also makes specific moral judgements more complex, since you can't apply a general rule to each case. For example, there are certainly some women who drink alcohol with the explicit point of lowering their sexual inhibitions. There are others who have their inhibitions lowered, but who weren't intending on this, and thus can feel taken advantage of even in what is seemingly a consensual act. To complicate matters further, there are some women who will take alcohol with the intent of lowering their inhibitions AND will after the fact pretend to be part of the second group so as to alleviate some of the negative social connotations with female promiscuity.
Our society is still far too squeamish on matters of sex to discuss these ideas openly. The realistic option that most men take is to pick up a sense of discernment so as to identify which situation is which. To play it safe, probably the best thing to do is to wait to get clear signals from a woman before proceeding (i.e. don't push yourself). Or in other words, let a woman select you, especially if there is alchohol involved.

On a different note, at the risk of sounding sexist, i do think there is, and should be, a double standard when it comes to women and men on this issue for simple biological reasons. It is extremely difficult to rape a man (if you're a woman) by using alchohol, since this inhibits their sexual functioning. You could still molest them, but again at the risk of sounding sexist, I think biological imperatives make this kind of experience much more traumatic (generally) for women then for men. And yes, i know i am somewhat contradicting my earlier point, which is why I said generally.

 

[brf4n]

make a move

if she likes it -> gf

if she doesn't -> find another girl to like

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

On a different note, at the risk of sounding sexist, i do think there is, and should be, a double standard when it comes to women and men on this issue for simple biological reasons. It is extremely difficult to rape a man (if you're a woman) by using alchohol, since this inhibits their sexual functioning. You could still molest them, but again at the risk of sounding sexist, I think biological imperatives make this kind of experience much more traumatic (generally) for women then for men. And yes, i know i am somewhat contradicting my earlier point, which is why I said generally.

The double standard that Cristo and Junglebeast took issue with (and which I actually agree with them on) is that the female in 'date rape' scenarios where there is consensual sex while under the influence is deemed to not be capable of taking responsibility for her actions while the male is generally expected to be responsible for their actions.

 

[Astronuc]

Every single drink the plaintiff took from the first to the last was his or her own decision, and the plaintiff thus chose to be physically impaired. Responsibility is never excluded because of poor decision-making.

Certainly with the first drink. After the first drink, judgement becomes impaired. That's why it is illegal to operate a motor vehicle with a certain level of alcohol in one's blood stream.

Yes people make poor judgements, and that is their responsibility - but that doesn't mean one should take advantage of them - nor does it exhonerate one who takes advantage of them.

Whenever I was out drinking and connected with a woman who had been drinking, I'd make sure she got back to her place safely, behind locked doors, before I left. Then I'd either go home or wander the streets or campus.

 

[Evo]

Every single drink the plaintiff took from the first to the last was his or her own decision, and the plaintiff thus chose to be physically impaired. Responsibility is never excluded because of poor decision-making.

The person may have gotten drunk, initially from bad decisions, then once drunk, most people don't have the reasoning to stop. Are you saying if a girl gets drunk that it's ok to rape her because she caused herself to become impaired? A person that impaired isn't capable of making sound decisions or even resisting in a lot of cases. Taking advantage of someone in an impaired condition is abhorable, and more than likely guilty, in the case of sex, of rape. A woman can't consent in that condition.