Two Dashes, Two Seconds: The Law and Safety on the Road

[petm1]

Following to close while driving is a deadly mistake. Two seconds, I think we all deserve them, plus it is the law. For those of you who don't know how to tell, at sixty five miles per hour it works out to be about one of the dash lines that separate the lanes per half second between vehicles in the same lane.

I try to give my wife one second, two dash lines, between her and I while riding our motorcycles, of course I am not following directly behind her, we ride staggered in our lane. Two dash lines, one second, may seem like a large area to people within a cage of steel, but on a bike it is not. Please think about it, even "if" you and your cage can fit between us, please do not.

While you may think I am waving because of how friendly I am, be assured the two fingers I am waving are to remind you of the two second rule and please use it, after all the life you save may be mine.


This is a letter I wrote to the editor of my local paper and I don't know whether to laugh or cry but the most common response I have received to date is "you can't use the dash lines you need a stationary landmark".

 

[Danger]

My personal rule is that I use three seconds while following a regular vehicle or four seconds if it's a bike in front of me. 33" Trail Handler tires on an El Camino present a ridiculous amount of rotational inertia that just curls its lip up at the concept of 'brakes'. I need that extra second to downshift.

 

[leroyjenkens]

I hate people who tailgate me. It's counter-productive. Do they think I'm going to speed up? I'll go the maximum speed limit, but when they get on my tail like that, it becomes minimum speed limit time.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

This is one my my biggest pet peeves while driving. I can't stand tail gaters. When I have one behind me I always take my foot off the gas and coast even to the point of going only 40 in a 65. As soon as they get out from behind me I speed up again and try to make sure to give them the national gesture of disapproval so they realize I was slowing because of them.

When I am in the car with friends who tail gate I get on their case about it. Most of my family tail gate too but none of them would take kindly to me telling them how to drive.

 

[lisab]

One of my brothers got his first ticket for tailgating...a cop! When he was asked about it, he said, "Well, the cop was driving too slow!" Yep, he was a bit...cheeky.

 

[turbo]

There was a rather large young lady with vanity plates that used to tailgate me on my way to work at least once a week. She followed so close that I couldn't see her front license plate, and as I glanced to the rear-view, I'd see her eating, talking on her cell, applying makeup etc. It was ridiculous. When I rode my bike to work instead of taking a car or truck, I would pull over into the break-down lane so I could get her in front of me. She would speed up and tailgate the next vehicle in front of her. It was pathetic.

 

[Office_Shredder]

This is one my my biggest pet peeves while driving. I can't stand tail gaters. When I have one behind me I always take my foot off the gas and coast even to the point of going only 40 in a 65. As soon as they get out from behind me I speed up again and try to make sure to give them the national gesture of disapproval so they realize I was slowing because of them.

You're one of those guys who slows everyone down in their lane, and then when someone tries to pass you speed up to stop it! A pox on you demon!

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

You're one of those guys who slows everyone down in their lane, and then when someone tries to pass you speed up to stop it! A pox on you demon!

Lol. I slow down only when I am being tail gated. And I only speed back up to normal speed when the tailgater changes lanes. ;-)
But seriously, I have no idea what the person in front of me might do and if they suddenly break for some reason, and I have some idiot riding my tail, someone is going to get rearended. Slowing down gets plenty of distance between me and the person ahead of me just in case so I and the jack*** both have plenty of breaking room.

 

[lisab]

Lol. I slow down only when I am being tail gated. And I only speed back up to normal speed when the tailgater changes lanes. ;-)
But seriously, I have no idea what the person in front of me might do and if they suddenly break for some reason, and I have some idiot riding my tail, someone is going to get rearended. Slowing down gets plenty of distance between me and the person ahead of me just in case so I and the jack*** both have plenty of breaking room.

Actually, that's just what I was taught in driver's ed (taken...wow, 30 years ago !). When you're being tailgated, increase the following distance, for just the reason you stated.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Lol. I slow down only when I am being tail gated. And I only speed back up to normal speed when the tailgater changes lanes. ;-)
But seriously, I have no idea what the person in front of me might do and if they suddenly break for some reason, and I have some idiot riding my tail, someone is going to get rearended. Slowing down gets plenty of distance between me and the person ahead of me just in case so I and the jack*** both have plenty of breaking room.

Ever had someone tailgate you up to a green light? If that light turns yellow and I have to slow down fast, they're going to hit me. They're either trying to intimidate me into going through the light or they're just too stupid to realize the danger in what they're doing, and can't even think one step ahead (the light turning yellow).
People need to start getting some jail time for this crap. They're allowed to roam the streets acting like this, then when they cause a disaster that kills a family, everyone is shocked. It's not shocking. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
Cars need to be treated like any other weapon. If you risk people's lives with a gun, you don't just get a ticket and get to keep your gun.

 

[Jack21222]

The worst tailgaters are the ones who do it even though the lanes all around you are completely free. They could easily have gotten into another lane and passed you safely. Instead, they ride right on your bumper for no reason whatsoever.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Actually, that's just what I was taught in driver's ed (taken...wow, 30 years ago !). When you're being tailgated, increase the following distance, for just the reason you stated.

I never took drivers ed. Just seems like common sense to me.

Ever had someone tailgate you up to a green light?

I remember that thread. It was the first one where I saw you and Dave get into it, and with me popping in here and there. I always remember good arguments. ;-)

I have not had that happen to me so much though. I do not slow down terribly before a stop and avoid the tailgaters as much as possible.

 

[Danger]

Ever had someone tailgate you up to a green light? If that light turns yellow and I have to slow down fast, they're going to hit me. They're either trying to intimidate me into going through the light or they're just too stupid to realize the danger in what they're doing, and can't even think one step ahead (the light turning yellow).
People need to start getting some jail time for this crap. They're allowed to roam the streets acting like this, then when they cause a disaster that kills a family, everyone is shocked. It's not shocking. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
Cars need to be treated like any other weapon. If you risk people's lives with a gun, you don't just get a ticket and get to keep your gun.

I couldn't agree more. Oddly enough, given the vast array of unbelievable morons with whom I've been forced to share the road for the past 40 years, I was rear-ended only once. That was about 6 years ago by a very sweet young lady (18-20) who was not exactly at fault. It was here in the town where I live, -30°, and the street was glare ice. The area is a 50 km/h zone, which is the maximum within town limits, but we were both doing a more prudent 20 or so due to road conditions. Also, she was maintaining a decent 4 second separation. The light went orange as I was approaching the intersection. Had I been going the speed limit, in good conditions, it would have happened without my being able to stop. As it was, I couldn't have made it through before it went red. So I downshifted to first, tapped the binders, and came to a reasonably acceptable stop. The poor girl behind me had no chance. Her vehicle blatantly refused to do more than slow down slightly. (Anti-lock brakes might have saved her, but she didn't have them.) Anyhow, she ploughed into me at a breathtaking 15 km/h. I barely noticed, but she was so distraught that I damned near cried out of sympathy for her. Her concern wasn't for her vehicle or her driving record; she was worried that she had caused me physical or vehicular damage, and that I might be mad at her. She was, in fact, the only victim of the incident. Her car went straight under the ***-end of mine, without even touching the bumper, and my skid plate crushed her hood down into the engine compartment. My car showed absolutely no evidence of the collision aside from a small shiny streak where some surface rust got scraped off of the skid plate. Her vehicle was still operational, and she drove the half dozen or so blocks home, but I'm sure that the body repairs ran to well over $1,000.
Okay, I have more to say regarding the general topic, but I'll hold off for a while and just post this as-is.

 

[Borg]

This is a letter I wrote to the editor of my local paper and I don't know whether to laugh or cry but the most common response I have received to date is "you can't use the dash lines you need a stationary landmark".

I guess that they think that the dashboard is a stationary landmark.

I hate people who tailgate me. It's counter-productive. Do they think I'm going to speed up? I'll go the maximum speed limit, but when they get on my tail like that, it becomes minimum speed limit time.

I responded to a post on a another forum once from someone who was complaining about driving on the freeway and having the car in front of them using their windshield washer. He was whining about how inconsiderate it was for that person to spray their freshly washed car.

I wrote in my post that I will sometimes purposely do this when someone is tailgating me on the freeway and I asked if perhaps he was tailgating. For some reason, he never responded. There were quite a few who loved that suggestion though...

 

[Danger]

I wrote in my post that I will sometimes purposely do this when someone is tailgating me on the freeway and I asked if perhaps he was tailgating. For some reason, he never responded. There were quite a few who loved that suggestion though...

My high-school buddy deliberately set the washer nozzles on his Datsun 510 to fire over the roof rather that onto the windshield for that exact same reason. Filling the reservois with ink instead of washer fluid merely added injury to insult.

 

[Borg]

My high-school buddy deliberately set the washer nozzles on his Datsun 510 to fire over the roof rather that onto the windshield for that exact same reason. Filling the reservois with ink instead of washer fluid merely added injury to insult.

Why am I not surprised?

 

[leroyjenkens]

I have not had that happen to me so much though. I do not slow down terribly before a stop and avoid the tailgaters as much as possible.

I try not to slow down fast before a stop. Sometimes, however, the light will turn yellow and I'll think I can make it at first, but then I realize I'm too far away, then I think it's too late to stop but I end up stopping anyway. It's that little argument in my head that causes those fast stops at a light. It doesn't happen often.

ddly enough, given the vast array of unbelievable morons with whom I've been forced to share the road for the past 40 years, I was rear-ended only once.

The primary time I'm worried about getting rear-ended is when I'm going down one of those on-ramps where you're going down in a circle and at an incline. If you have to yield for other cars, the person behind you may smack into you. I've seen that happen a lot. They're not looking ahead, they're looking behind them, speeding up to try to make it into traffic without realizing you stopped ahead of them because you were waiting for an opening.

 

[SonyAD]

Tailgating is what you get for not hauling *** in the passing lanes. If you want to loiter do it near the shoulder. This is also the law.

The 2~3 seconds worth of distance between cars is completely impractical in most any situation, just like the 50~150 yards rule between starting to signal and actually beginning to change lanes.

What is practical and proper is to pay attention to the vehicle in front of the vehicle in front of yours so you don't have to react to its driver's reaction. Not leave football fields of chasm to the vehicle in front counting the dashes while inviting cars in adjacent lanes to switch.

And this is why window tint should be outlawed and why land yachts and light trucks are a nuisance.

If most people had any sense & decency there'd hardly be a need for law or enforcement.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Tailgating is what you get for not hauling *** in the passing lanes. If you want to loiter do it near the shoulder. This is also the law.

So it's what you get for not breaking the law in the passing lane? So to avoid breaking the law, you need to break the law? That makes a lot of sense.
And it's not the law everywhere. Funny thing, laws change depending on where you are.

The 2~3 seconds worth of distance between cars is completely impractical in most any situation, just like the 50~150 yards rule between starting to signal and actually beginning to change lanes.

Only because people will fill that gap, causing you to have to slow down even more, creating more spaces for people to fill the gap.

What is practical and proper is to pay attention to the vehicle in front of the vehicle in front of yours so you don't have to react to its driver's reaction.

Not always possible. If it's a UPS truck in front of you, you can't see in front of them. And it doesn't even have to be a truck, some people have tinted windows so dark, you can't see through them to see what's in front of them.

And this is why window tint should be outlawed and why land yachts and light trucks are a nuisance.

I don't mind a slight tint, but when they have a black car and I can't tell where the metal ends and the window begins, it's obviously way too dark.

 

[Jack21222]

Tailgating is what you get for not hauling *** in the passing lanes. If you want to loiter do it near the shoulder. This is also the law.

The 2~3 seconds worth of distance between cars is completely impractical in most any situation, just like the 50~150 yards rule between starting to signal and actually beginning to change lanes.

What is practical and proper is to pay attention to the vehicle in front of the vehicle in front of yours so you don't have to react to its driver's reaction. Not leave football fields of chasm to the vehicle in front counting the dashes while inviting cars in adjacent lanes to switch.

And this is why window tint should be outlawed and why land yachts and light trucks are a nuisance.

If most people had any sense & decency there'd hardly be a need for law or enforcement.

1) I generally break the speed limit in the passing lane, and I still get tailgated. I guess I'm not passing people "fast enough." If your idea of the law is correct, it is illegal to drive in the left lane at any speed. If you go the speed limit or below, you're not yielding to traffic. If you drive above the speed limit, you're passing.

I don't feel comfortable with the law saying it's always illegal to drive in the left lane, no matter what.

Furthermore, as I alluded to in my previous post, some tailgaters will do it even in the middle lane, when the passing lane is completely free.

Lastly, even if I decided to go 10 mph under the speed limit in the left lane, tailgating is still not excused. It's a danger not only to yourself, but everybody else nearby.

2) The 2-3 second rule is almost always practical. It's only impractical during the transition period between "free flowing" traffic and "stop and go" traffic.

3) 2-3 seconds does not leave "football fields" of distance. 60 mph is 88 feet per second. In 3 seconds that's 264 feet, or less than one football field.

4) You say looking a few cars ahead is "practical," but then you give examples of how it is impractical. Good job.

 

[SonyAD]

So it's what you get for not breaking the law in the passing lane? So to avoid breaking the law, you need to break the law? That makes a lot of sense.
And it's not the law everywhere. Funny thing, laws change depending on where you are.

I don't remember exactly but I think the law advises that, at all times, you keep as near to the right as possible, traffic permitting.

Failing to do so is probably not a misdemeanour. But how are you breaking the law by keeping to the right?

This, unfortunately is the pervasive and prevailing mentality:

Hey, I'm doing the speed limit! Nobody should be going faster than me anyways. It's ok to be a pleb and hold up the fast/passing lanes, make them overtake me on the right, endangering everyone.

Only because people will fill that gap, causing you to have to slow down even more, creating more spaces for people to fill the gap.

Yeah, because such a gap is impractical. Three seconds at highway speed is an enormous distance.

Not always possible. If it's a UPS truck in front of you, you can't see in front of them.

Yes. But you can overtake them on the left hand side because the driver is respecting the law and keeping to the right.

And it doesn't even have to be a truck, some people have tinted windows so dark, you can't see through them to see what's in front of them.

That's why tinted windows should be outlawed or opacity limits properly enforced. Tinted windows is the first of many clear cut clues the car belongs to a douchebag.

I don't mind a slight tint, but when they have a black car and I can't tell where the metal ends and the window begins, it's obviously way too dark.

Yup.

1) I generally break the speed limit in the passing lane, and I still get tailgated. I guess I'm not passing people "fast enough." If your idea of the law is correct, it is illegal to drive in the left lane at any speed.

The law says to keep as far to the right as possible at all times. In Germany they actually bother to enforce this with fines and license suspensions. It makes a world of difference in civilising the driving population. They also enforce yielding to on ramps.

Just as it is driving etiquette to allow someone slower to finish their overtake manoeuvre without harassing them by flashing your lights and tailgating them, it is also driving etiquette not to loiter when passing.

It's all about decency and common courtesy. Just like doing the zipper is when the road narrows by one or more lanes. Too bad they give out licenses like cupcakes these days.

If you go the speed limit or below, you're not yielding to traffic. If you drive above the speed limit, you're passing.

You probably don't need to be in the passing/fast lanes in the first place.

I don't feel comfortable with the law saying it's always illegal to drive in the left lane, no matter what.

It's not illegal. If it is, it's not enforced. I remember the law encourages/advises towards keeping as far to the right as possible at all times.

Furthermore, as I alluded to in my previous post, some tailgaters will do it even in the middle lane, when the passing lane is completely free.

I wouldn't know. I keep my eyes on the road ahead. Unless I'm planning on changing lanes.

Lastly, even if I decided to go 10 mph under the speed limit in the left lane, tailgating is still not excused. It's a danger not only to yourself, but everybody else nearby.

You need to be able to stop faster than the car in front. If they're licensed to drive, the person behind should be able to do that while you're checking your mirror. Unless you drive a land yacht or have tainted windows. But then land yachts don't slow down or turn very well.

2) The 2-3 second rule is almost always practical. It's only impractical during the transition period between "free flowing" traffic and "stop and go" traffic.

How is leaving twice or more the stopping distance to the car in front ever practical?

3) 2-3 seconds does not leave "football fields" of distance. 60 mph is 88 feet per second. In 3 seconds that's 264 feet, or less than one football field.

83 metres is a lot of distance. In the dry I can stop completely inside of 42 metres from 100 km/h.

4) You say looking a few cars ahead is "practical," but then you give examples of how it is impractical. Good job.

I try and overtake vehicles I can't see through. I can't stand being behind them.

Also, it is practical. Furthermore, it's considered good practice.

You are hanging on the few exceptions to dismiss the rule while the 2~3 seconds rule is almost always impractical.

 

[Danger]

No offense, Sony, but I hope to hell that you leave your wheels at home and travel by bus if you ever visit Canada. I sure don't want you anywhere near a road that I might be on.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Failing to do so is probably not a misdemeanour. But how are you breaking the law by keeping to the right?

You're breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit in the left lane. The speed limit is the speed limit regardless of which lane you're in.

Hey, I'm doing the speed limit! Nobody should be going faster than me anyways. It's ok to be a pleb and hold up the fast/passing lanes, make them overtake me on the right, endangering everyone.

If I'm going the speed limit in the left lane, I don't MAKE people do anything. If they're driving dangerously, that's their fault, not mine. And if they're driving dangerously, then THEY'RE endangering people.
You sound like those people who blame the woman for getting raped. She shouldn't have been so pretty to MAKE the person rape her.
And what makes passing someone on the right dangerous and passing on the left not dangerous? That makes no sense.
That's like saying skateboarding with your left foot in front is not dangerous, but skateboarding with your right foot in front IS dangerous. What's the difference?

The law says to keep as far to the right as possible at all times.

That is except for when you want to speed? You're criticizing people for breaking the "stay right" law because they're interfering with people who break the speed limit law. You're adamant about one law and then turn around and condone breaking another law.

I wouldn't know. I keep my eyes on the road ahead. Unless I'm planning on changing lanes.

As much as you wanted that to make you sound like a good driver, it did the opposite. You should know what's going on around you while driving, not JUST what's directly in front of you. But I don't believe for a second that you never glance at the mirror, or see giant headlights right on your tail unless you're changing lanes.

 

[Jack21222]

I wouldn't know. I keep my eyes on the road ahead. Unless I'm planning on changing lanes.

Then you're a bad driver.

How is leaving twice or more the stopping distance to the car in front ever practical? 83 metres is a lot of distance. In the dry I can stop completely inside of 42 metres from 100 km/h.

Reaction time. If you're checking your mirrors when the person in front of you slams on their brakes, you won't be hitting your brakes immediately. Additionally, even if you are staring straight ahead, it takes time for your brain to notice that you need to stop, it takes time for that signal to reach your foot, it takes time for you to move your foot over to the brake and depress it. THAT'S why you need more than the stopping distance.

 

[Office_Shredder]

You're breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit in the left lane. The speed limit is the speed limit regardless of which lane you're in.

The drive under the speed limit law and the pass in the left lane law are independent. It's not 'the left lane is for passing or driving the speed limit.

Also, Sony you really just discredited yourself as a decent driver

 

[leroyjenkens]

The drive under the speed limit law and the pass in the left lane law are independent. It's not 'the left lane is for passing or driving the speed limit.

My point is that it's not the 'pass by all means necessary' lane, either. Just because you want to pass, doesn't give you the right to exceed the speed limit. Admonishing those who don't keep right because it's the law, while feeling sorry for the poor speeders who are impeded by those evil criminals makes no sense. And then to blame the person who didn't get out of the way of the speeder if the speeder causes an accident is just on a whole other level of nonsense.

 

[petm1]

All of us share the same responsibly on the road, arrive alive, two seconds is what each of us give to other drivers around us. I must admit that the worst of the drivers are the ones that change lanes right alongside of me at any speed, and shrug their shoulders or hand gestures as I am forced onto the shoulder or into other traffic, four times in three states last week alone, I assure you I am not a stunt rider. I truly believe that while riding my bikes ninety nine percent of drivers don't see me and that the one percent that do see me are actively trying to kill me.

 

[SonyAD]

No offense, Sony, but I hope to hell that you leave your wheels at home and travel by bus if you ever visit Canada. I sure don't want you anywhere near a road that I might be on.

Why? Because I don't loiter in the fast lane? I'm not comfortable tail gating someone at highway speeds either. I'm just saying ppl. should mind their own business on the road and stop pretending like it's their business to police how fast other people drive.

You're breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit in the left lane. The speed limit is the speed limit regardless of which lane you're in.

Yes, but my breaking the law doesn't give you the right to break it as well, in a self-righteous attempt to police my speeding or not.

If I'm going the speed limit in the left lane, I don't MAKE people do anything.

Under your definition, no. Would they have to overtake you on the right hand side or slow to your speed if you weren't driving in the left lane? No.

If they're driving dangerously, that's their fault, not mine. And if they're driving dangerously, then THEY'RE endangering people.

If they're going faster than you they're driving dangerously?

You sound like those people who blame the woman for getting raped. She shouldn't have been so pretty to MAKE the person rape her.

This is complete nonsense. Is it analogies like this you're thinking of when someone's tailgating you?

And what makes passing someone on the right dangerous and passing on the left not dangerous? That makes no sense.

I'm incredulous at your asking that. This is really basic stuff. First of all, they wouldn't have to overtake you if you weren't in the left lane. Second of all, it is also the law that overtaking manoeuvres are to be performed predilectly on the left hand side. Unless the vehicle being overtaken is on the centre lane and is signalling a left turn or that section of road does not allow crossing of the centre dividing line(the case in point).

Why is that? Well, I suppose to reduce the incidence of two vehicles colliding after overtaking a vehicle on either side of it. Or the vehicle overtaking colliding with the one being overtaken.

That's like saying skateboarding with your left foot in front is not dangerous, but skateboarding with your right foot in front IS dangerous. What's the difference?

What's the difference between obeying the give-way-to-the-right rule and not? Yielding to oncoming traffic when attempting a left turn and not yielding?

It's just a legislated convention. Like driving on the right side of the road is.

That is except for when you want to speed? You're criticizing people for breaking the "stay right" law because they're interfering with people who break the speed limit law. You're adamant about one law and then turn around and condone breaking another law.

Yes. It's not your place to police and enforce laws on the road. Some guy going past isn't a bother to you. You are a bother to someone wanting to go faster than you in the left lane.

As much as you wanted that to make you sound like a good driver, it did the opposite. You should know what's going on around you while driving, not JUST what's directly in front of you. But I don't believe for a second that you never glance at the mirror, or see giant headlights right on your tail unless you're changing lanes.

Why do you presume to know what I was inferring? Yes, I check the mirrors sometimes, when there's nothing conspicuous cooking up ahead for some distance or I'm bored. But mostly only when planning or evaluating whether a lane change would be opportune.

Unless you've got eyes in the back of your head and can see through metal-pillars it's highly unlikely you know everything that goes on around you, all the time. Anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous to put down an unpopular troll or doesn't realize how much stuff completely passes everyone by in traffic, despite the best efforts.

Our limited senses are a big chunk of the reason for such common sense practices as yielding to the vehicle to your right when both attempting a left hand turn (the gal/guy is on the lookout for oncoming traffic and can't see you but you can see both them and the opposite traffic). I'm sure you follow such fine practices.

Then you're a bad driver.

Oh, snap.

Reaction time. If you're checking your mirrors when the person in front of you slams on their brakes, you won't be hitting your brakes immediately.

Hence why I look ahead when driving... see above. And also through the car in front.

If only everyone would take care of so much of their end of the driving contract.

Additionally, even if you are staring straight ahead, it takes time for your brain to notice that you need to stop, it takes time for that signal to reach your foot, it takes time for you to move your foot over to the brake and depress it. THAT'S why you need more than the stopping distance.

It does take time. Hopefully less than a soccer mom would need. Still, why looking through the car in front is a must. Leaving a football field length to the car in front is not a practical alternative.

The drive under the speed limit law and the pass in the left lane law are independent. It's not 'the left lane is for passing or driving the speed limit.

I don't see your point. My point all along was that you shouldn't loiter in the fast/passing lanes. If you do then yield right as soon as practically possible so as to avoid forcing people behind you to apply the brakes at highway speeds. Common courtesy.

Also, Sony you really just discredited yourself as a decent driver

If mister spidey with the spidey sense says it is so then it must be so.

My point is that it's not the 'pass by all means necessary' lane, either. Just because you want to pass, doesn't give you the right to exceed the speed limit.

It is not a legal requirement to keep bellow the speed limit while overtaking. In fact, and I think I remember this clearly, it is required by law that you do not accelerate nor change lanes when you know someone is attempting to overtake you.

Yes, passing is not overtaking. But neither is it within your attributes to enforce the speed limit.

Admonishing those who don't keep right because it's the law, while feeling sorry for the poor speeders who are impeded by those evil criminals makes no sense.

That's a false argument. Let the speeders be fined, have their licenses confiscated from them, etc. It's not your place to enforce the speed limit. You're only endangering everyone.

And then to blame the person who didn't get out of the way of the speeder if the speeder causes an accident is just on a whole other level of nonsense.

Ok, we've only been arguing over the hypothetical when the loiterer is doing the speed limit. How about when they're driving bellow the limit and, by not keeping to the right, they force other drivers, who only want to do the limit, to overtake on the right?

I'm curious how you would argue them apples.

 

[Borg]

No offense, Sony, but I hope to hell that you leave your wheels at home and travel by bus if you ever visit Canada. I sure don't want you anywhere near a road that I might be on.

Same here Sony. Please don't drive in DC either. We have enough people here with your attitudes about the rules of the road. I don't screw around in the left lane and I tend to drive above the speed limit on the freeway but, I still get tailgated by people like you no matter where or how I drive. There always seems to be an excuse. I don't have tinted windows though so it must be something else.

 

[Danger]

Sony, have you even read your own posts enough to realize that over 99% of what you have written, including your interpretations of traffic rules, is utter ********?
The laws in Canada are universal, and I suspect that they apply to most of the US as well. On a 2-lane road, you obviously have to remain to the right (or left in England, Australia, etc.) except to pass. Although we all do it, it is technically illegal to exceed the speed limit even while passing. For instance, on a road with a 100 km/h limit, you cannot go faster than 100 in order to pass someone who is doing 99. That is usually impractical, but it is the law. Besides, safely pacing that person at 99 will cost you maybe 30 seconds or a minute over the course of your entire drive. Is that amount of time worth risking your life, or more importantly the lives of those around you? If a few seconds is that meaningful to you, and you know that time will eventually run out, you'd might as well just commit suicide right now to eliminate future disappointment (and to save the lives of whoever else you might share a road with).
Multi-lane roads are different. The general rule, which is posted on signs in hilly areas and the like, is "keep right except to pass". Although it is a law, it is almost never enforced in regard to traditional passenger vehicles. It's there to avoid a situation in which a couple of RV's or such are side-by-side at significantly less than the posted limit, preventing anyone from passing. I'm no angel in that sort of situation either, but the difference between you and I is that I'm an expert driver and know my vehicles down to the last nut and bolt. I've done things that most people would consider reckless or stupid, but they were carefully calculated to be safe. The RV situation, for example. A 2-lane road with a 100 km/h limit and I was homeward bound overdue for a meal (that was important, because my diabetes was controlled by diet and I was starting to feel the effects of insulin shock). There was a Winnebago doing 80 km/h with 11 cars stuck behind it. My car was the 11th. The others were all "normal" passenger sedans or toy sports cars such as FireChickens or Camaros. The first 2 or 3 could probably have passed the RV, but chose not to. I appreciate that decision on the parts of the drivers; if they didn't feel confident about doing it, then doing it would have been stupid and probably hazardous. I was, however, in a hurry (and, frankly, I like to drive fast), so I took the initiative. I poked my nose out a couple of times to see what was what, and the last time it turned out that the nearest oncoming traffic was almost 2 km away. Okay... downshift to 2nd and balls-to-the-wall. I was doing 240 km/h when I passed the Winnie, and the oncoming traffic was still almost a kilometre away. That part was strictly illegal, but I was hungry enough to not care. Once back in my own lane after the pass, however, I immediately dropped down to the legal 100 limit and did not exceed it again. That was 4 seconds of illegality in an otherwise uneventful 2-hour drive. It was a calculated risk, but that calculation indicated a virtual certainty of success. The factors that I weighed in my mind (as I'm sure that Bob, Stingray, and a few others would) would never even occur to someone like you. My tires are not susceptible to blowouts. The wheel studs, bearings and nuts are in good condition and properly torqued, so there was almost no chance of shelling a wheel. I remained 20 km/h below the speed at which the front tires no longer contact the road, so steering was not an issue. If the front U-joint was going to pack it in and pole-vault me over the driveshaft, it would have done so during the 4th-to-2nd downshift at 80 km/h, not during the subsequent 2-3 and 3-4 upshifts. 2-3 cost me a couple of grams of rubber from the tires, but that's just to be expected when you dump over 600 hp onto the pavement on short notice.
Okay, back to the laws. On a road with 2 or more lanes in the same direction, you can pass in any of them. It's not even considered "passing" in the traditional sense. It's just overtaking someone in a different lane. On a straight road with no intersections, the courteous and strictly legal thing to do is stay to the right. It's a whole different thing if you have a left-hand turn pending.
The bottom line is that I don't consider you fit to possesses a driver's license. You're the sort of person who will see someone struggling to merge and rush into cut him off. A good driver will slow down and beckon him to join ahead.

edit: Damned autocensor caught me again. The asterisks in my first sentence somehow replaced my original words which were basically a synonym for "bovine excrement".

 

[turbo]

Sony, have you even read your own posts enough to realize that over 99% of what you have written, including your interpretations of traffic rules, is utter ********?
The laws in Canada are universal, and I suspect that they apply to most of the US as well. On a 2-lane road, you obviously have to remain to the right (or left in England, Australia, etc.) except to pass. Although we all do it, it is technically illegal to exceed the speed limit even while passing. For instance, on a road with a 100 km/h limit, you cannot go faster than 100 in order to pass someone who is doing 99. That is usually impractical, but it is the law. Besides, safely pacing that person at 99 will cost you maybe 30 seconds or a minute over the course of your entire drive. Is that amount of time worth risking your life, or more importantly the lives of those around you? If a few seconds is that meaningful to you, and you know that time will eventually run out, you'd might as well just commit suicide right now to eliminate future disappointment (and to save the lives of whoever else you might share a road with).
Multi-lane roads are different. The general rule, which is posted on signs in hilly areas and the like, is "keep right except to pass". Although it is a law, it is almost never enforced in regard to traditional passenger vehicles. It's there to avoid a situation in which a couple of RV's or such are side-by-side at significantly less than the posted limit, preventing anyone from passing. I'm no angel in that sort of situation either, but the difference between you and I is that I'm an expert driver and know my vehicles down to the last nut and bolt. I've done things that most people would consider reckless or stupid, but they were carefully calculated to be safe. The RV situation, for example. A 2-lane road with a 100 km/h limit and I was homeward bound overdue for a meal (that was important, because my diabetes was controlled by diet and I was starting to feel the effects of insulin shock). There was a Winnebago doing 80 km/h with 11 cars stuck behind it. My car was the 12th. The others were all "normal" passenger sedans or toy sports cars such as FireChickens or Camaros. The first 2 or 3 could probably have passed the RV, but chose not to. I appreciate that decision on the parts of the drivers; if they didn't feel confident about doing it, then doing it would have been stupid and probably hazardous. I was, however, in a hurry (and, frankly, I like to drive fast), so I took the initiative. I poked my nose out a couple of times to see what was what, and the last time it turned out that the nearest oncoming traffic was almost 2 km away. Okay... downshift to 2nd and balls-to-the-wall. I was doing 240 km/h when I passed the Winnie, and the oncoming traffic was still almost a kilometre away. That part was strictly illegal, but I was hungry enough to not care. Once back in my own lane after the pass, however, I immediately dropped down to the legal 100 limit and did not exceed it again. That was 4 seconds of illegality in an otherwise uneventful 2-hour drive. It was a calculated risk, but that calculation indicated a virtual certainty of success. The factors that I weighed in my mind (as I'm sure that Bob, Stingray, and a few others would) would never even occur to someone like you. My tires are not susceptible to blowouts. The wheel studs, bearings and nuts are in good condition and properly torqued, so there was almost no chance of shelling a wheel. I remained 20 km/h below the speed at which the front tires no longer contact the road, so steering was not an issue. If the front U-joint was going to pack it in and pole-vault me over the driveshaft, it would have done so during the 4th-to-2nd downshift at 80 km/h, not during the subsequent 2-3 and 3-4 upshifts. 2-3 cost me a couple of grams of rubber from the tires, but that's just to be expected when you dump over 600 hp onto the pavement on short notice.
Okay, back to the laws. On a road with 2 or more lanes in the same direction, you can pass in any of them. It's not even considered "passing" in the traditional sense. It's just overtaking someone in a different lane. On a straight road with no intersections, the courteous and strictly legal thing to do is stay to the right. It's a whole different thing if you have a left-hand turn pending.
The bottom line is that I don't consider you fit to possesses a driver's license. You're the sort of person who will see someone struggling to merge and rush into cut him off. A good driver will slow down and beckon him to join ahead.

edit: Damned autocensor caught me again. The asterisks in my first sentence somehow replaced my original words which were basically a synonym for "bovine excrement".

We don't have a "thumbs-up smilie"! Why? This post needs one.

 

[Jack21222]

If mister spidey with the spidey sense says it is so then it must be so.

While it is technically possible that 100% of the people responding to you are wrong, and you alone are correct, Occam's Razor would suggest that perhaps you're the one who's wrong.

 

[Danger]

While it is technically possible that 100% of the people responding to you are wrong, and you alone are correct, Occam's Razor would suggest that perhaps you're the one who's wrong.

With your kind permission, Sir, I am henceforth going to address you as Mister Spock.

Honestly, pal... some people on PF are just too ****ing cool to exist. You have just put yourself in that category.

 

[Jack21222]

With your kind permission, Sir, I am henceforth going to address you as Mister Spock.

Honestly, pal... some people on PF are just too ****ing cool to exist. You have just put yourself in that category.

Thanks, but I was aiming for Sheldon Cooper and not Spock.

 

[RonL]

Ahhhh!
The complete program for "ROAD RAGE"