Schools U.S. versus Canadian Universities

[Serbian.matematika]

If someone graduates from a 3 year Community College Program in Ontario they will be accepted into 3rd year at the U.S.A universities, while they would be accepted into 2nd year in Ontario, why?
More rigorous programs in Ontario?
Community Colleges do not have Calculus II, Physics, Chemistry, Linear Algebra, Vector Calculus for EE , how those graduates are OK to attend 3rd year program in USA? impossible in Ontario.

I guess in USA everything is seen through $ sign?
Ontario universities are public U, not private.

 

[leright]

If someone graduates from a 3 year Community College Program in Ontario they will be accepted into 3rd year at the U.S.A universities, while they would be accepted into 2nd year in Ontario, why?
More rigorous programs in Ontario?
Community Colleges do not have Calculus II, Physics, Chemistry, Linear Algebra, Vector Calculus for EE , how those graduates are OK to attend 3rd year program in USA? impossible in Ontario.

I guess in USA everything is seen through $ sign?
Ontario universities are public U, not private.

No, American universities overall are not worse than Canadian universities. This is just something Canadians like to believe.

And many American community colleges offer all of the courses you list. Get your facts straight next time. No American engineering program would accept someone from CC as a 3rd year transfer student unless all of the fundamental math (calc 1-3, diffEQ, linear alg), physics (basic E&M, mechanics, etc), and chemistry up through the 2nd year were satisfied. I don't see any American university letting people transfer in as 3rd year students and let them take 3rd year coursework without having the necessary pre-req mathematics and physics.

I would even say that some of the best American universities are as good as if not better than some of the best Canadian universities. *gasp*

 

[FredGarvin]

If someone graduates from a 3 year Community College Program in Ontario they will be accepted into 3rd year at the U.S.A universities, while they would be accepted into 2nd year in Ontario, why?
More rigorous programs in Ontario?
Community Colleges do not have Calculus II, Physics, Chemistry, Linear Algebra, Vector Calculus for EE , how those graduates are OK to attend 3rd year program in USA? impossible in Ontario.

I guess in USA everything is seen through $ sign?
Ontario universities are public U, not private.

You need to talk to Danger about the issues with posting drunk.

Brainiac...comunity colleges are public universities.

 

[fizziks]

Still, at the end, everything revolves around money.

 

[George Jones]

Brainiac...comunity colleges are public universities.

Not in Canada.

Although the two systems are in the process of moving a little closer together, here (Canada), the (public) community college system and the (public) university system are still quite different.

Edit: I don't have much to say about the title of the thread, but I will say that in terms of fundamental physics research performed at universities, the U.S. is by far the dominant country in the world.

 

[Werg22]

Institutions like Harvard, John Hopkins, MIT, Stanford, Berkley etc. carry allot more weight than any Canadian university.

 

[oedipa maas]

Canada will never have a Harvard or a Stanford because 100 - 150 years ago when these schools were beginning to grow Canada just didn't have the population or industrial wealth to support such an institution.

The top schools in Canada (UBC, U of T, McGill) compare with top public schools in the US - U Michigan or UCLA. But tuition is a lot cheaper in Canada!

I would speculate that undergraduate physics education in Canada is far more uniform in quality than undergraduate education in the US. A friend of mine from a decent US liberal arts college was about a year behind the Canadian students when he started grad school in Canada.

 

[mgb_phys]

My experience of Canada is as you say that good Canadian universities are equivalent to good US public U. It seems to be Candian policy to offer 'good' level courses at each place rather than have particular universities specialise in areas and become centres of excellence as in the Uk/Australia.
This may be because they realize that top researchers in a field would always be poached by US institutes or maybe it's just the Canadian way!

 

[leright]

Also, many Americans have never even heard of University of Toronto, but most Canadians have heard of Harvard, Stanford, Yale, and Princeton.

Many Canadians will just come back and say it is because Americans are stupider of less educated. Canada is a great country so I don't understand why Canadians seem to have such an inferiority complex.

 

[morphism]

I got into a few American schools (including Princeton, for those who care about 'big names') but chose to go to the University of Waterloo in Ontario. Three years later, I'm confident I made the right choice. I can't imagine a better place for undergrad math.

 

[JasonRox]

Also, many Americans have never even heard of University of Toronto, but most Canadians have heard of Harvard, Stanford, Yale, and Princeton.

Um... the MEDIA! DUH!

Ask any real educated students and they definitely know about Waterloo, UofT, and UBC. Ask kids with brains.

Lots of people here have no idea what MIT is. Why? THE MEDIA DOESN'T SHOW THAT SCHOOL OFTEN!

 

[Werg22]

MIT is pretty well known... more so than any Canadian university.

 

[neurocomp2003]

This debate can only be taken to people foreign to the continent, seeing as how this thread seems like only americans & Canadians postings.
I can speak for my aunts/uncles who only want to send their children to american schools though i odn't see why but one reason is $$$.

As for Canadians, we here a lot about these american schools because some of our professors come from these schools and like JasonRox says we see them in movies a lot even though some of these movies are filmed in Canada.
And obviously read about some of the in scientific magazines.

Also I guess it would also depend on the field you were going to...

for mathematics waterloo seems to be as good as any american school especially in cs/math interdisplinary programme.

For psychology if you haven't heard of mcgill, LOL (and i'd dalhousie or mcmaster might be up there)

and I'd be surprised how many people don't know about UfT or UBC.

i'm pretty sure UCalgary is known for graphics.

As for MIT...the only reason we know about it is because other people talk about it but do we really know why? I only know the existence of the Media laboratory for AI.

In the states,whats the differences between a college and a university?

 

[fourier jr]

No, American universities overall are not worse than Canadian universities. This is just something Canadians like to believe.
...
I would even say that some of the best American universities are as good as if not better than some of the best Canadian universities. *gasp*

Overall I would say they are. There are a few really good ones for the rich kids & lousy ones for the rest.

Canada will never have a Harvard or a Stanford because 100 - 150 years ago when these schools were beginning to grow Canada just didn't have the population or industrial wealth to support such an institution.

The top schools in Canada (UBC, U of T, McGill) compare with top public schools in the US - U Michigan or UCLA. But tuition is a lot cheaper in Canada!

I would speculate that undergraduate physics education in Canada is far more uniform in quality than undergraduate education in the US. A friend of mine from a decent US liberal arts college was about a year behind the Canadian students when he started grad school in Canada.

That's the difference. An undergrad degree is pretty much the same across Canada. In the US it makes a huge difference if your dad is extremely well off. In the US universities can be great or lousy (depending on how much cash you have), but in Canada they're average at worst. A degree from one university is the same as one from another.

My experience of Canada is as you say that good Canadian universities are equivalent to good US public U. It seems to be Candian policy to offer 'good' level courses at each place rather than have particular universities specialise in areas and become centres of excellence as in the Uk/Australia.
This may be because they realize that top researchers in a field would always be poached by US institutes or maybe it's just the Canadian way!

It's the Canadian way for education to be accessible whether or not you come from a wealthy family if that's what you mean.

Also, many Americans have never even heard of University of Toronto, but most Canadians have heard of Harvard, Stanford, Yale, and Princeton.
Many Canadians will just come back and say it is because Americans are stupider of less educated. Canada is a great country so I don't understand why Canadians seem to have such an inferiority complex.

That means absolutely nothing. Is that supposed to be funny? (actually it is, it indicates the state of english education in the US ) Some Americans can't even find their own country on a map, so how would you expect them to have heard of U of Toronto or any other Canadian school? & I had no idea Canadians had an inferiority complex. Plenty of Canadians know there are world-class universities here. It's the Americans who don't have a clue about Canada, or any other country for that matter.

 

[Werg22]

I suggest locking this thread, nothing good is coming out of it.

 

[mathwonk]

i agree. this thread has had no useful purpose since the initial post.

 

[neurocomp2003]

well let's hope people who aren't american or Canadian post their opinions to better understand how different countries perceives another country's education and by what criteria they based their opinions by.

 

[PhilosophyofPhysics]

Some of the most ignorant people I've come across on the internet have been Canadians. It's like, what are they breeding up there?

-accepting pseudo-medicine
-anti-technology
-criticizing "western" science
-environmental idealism
-economic ignorance
-CBC lovers
-hyper pride about not being American

what a silly country

 

[Werg22]

Oh god... lock it already.

 

[mgb_phys]

fourier_j It's the Canadian way for education to be accessible whether or not you come from a wealthy family if that's what you mean.

Universities in Europe are accessible too - what I meant was that eg. Holland decided that it is a small country and cannot do everything and so decided to concentrate on certain areas (my own branch of astrononomy being one) that it was world class in and increase funding to these while closing departments that were merely ordinary.
Similairly I think the Australian competative nature means it has a number of universities that fight hard to be world class in certain areas.
Canada seems comfortable having fairly uniform equal status institutes.

 

[buster]

fight b/w americans n the Canadians?

 

[renigade666]

Some of the most ignorant people I've come across on the internet have been Canadians.

-anti-technology
-criticizing "western" science
-environmental idealism
-hyper pride about not being American

what a silly country

The way you paint all Canadians like that... there might be SOME truth behind that comment



But on a serious note, I wonder how the top Universities in Canada (UofT, Waterloo, McGill n such) actually can compare to the top Universities in the States (Harvard, MIT, etc). Guess it will be pretty hard to tell unless someone has experience from both sides.

 

[ranger]

One thing I dislike (from what I've heard) about Canadian universities (UofT) is that they have a weird academic year. A buddy of mine wants to transfer to their engineering program from a US university but he can't start till Fall 08 at the earliest; even if he sent all his documents now. Hes trying to see whether he can take any "none technical" courses prior to Fall 08.

 

[neurocomp2003]

that usually only applied to UFT. thye have a strict enrollment time.

 

[ranger]

Umm...does Waterloo have the same setup?

 

[JasonRox]

One thing I dislike (from what I've heard) about Canadian universities (UofT) is that they have a weird academic year. A buddy of mine wants to transfer to their engineering program from a US university but he can't start till Fall 08 at the earliest; even if he sent all his documents now. Hes trying to see whether he can take any "none technical" courses prior to Fall 08.

That's the start of the year, what do you expect?

Classes are very full in Ontario especially. There isn't much room to let people start whenever and even if they said it was ok, I highly doubt you'd get into a class anyways. Classes are normally full within 2-3 days of it being posted. It's so bad that they separate registration times at our school because first year students are probably not aware of it and might end up sitting on the sidelines. First years get to register 2 weeks ahead of time, then a second group, third group and so on and so on (like 20 groups) that are separated by a few days.

It might be July now, but if you didn't register in courses like Calculus and Psychology and so on, you're most likely already out of luck. The only way in is to hope they open another class, but even then you're most likely out of luck because students check like 2-3 times a day checking to see if another slot opened up. We don't even start school until September and first years start registering the day after they're done high school!

 

[ranger]

That's the start of the year, what do you expect?

Classes are very full in Ontario especially. There isn't much room to let people start whenever and even if they said it was ok, I highly doubt you'd get into a class anyways. Classes are normally full within 2-3 days of it being posted. It's so bad that they separate registration times at our school because first year students are probably not aware of it and might end up sitting on the sidelines. First years get to register 2 weeks ahead of time, then a second group, third group and so on and so on (like 20 groups) that are separated by a few days.

It might be July now, but if you didn't register in courses like Calculus and Psychology and so on, you're most likely already out of luck. The only way in is to hope they open another class, but even then you're most likely out of luck because students check like 2-3 times a day checking to see if another slot opened up. We don't even start school until September and first years start registering the day after they're done high school!

Now there's something they don't tell when you're doing research about UofT. I was hoping that it was kind of like US universities where you can just take any course you wanted on any given semester (once its offered); you don't need to worry about the "start of the year" as in high school (well maybe not even high school).
I assume that this is for UofT and not UW? Classes are probably like 30+ students given the limited sessions?

 

[JasonRox]

Now there's something they don't tell when you're doing research about UofT. I was hoping that it was kind of like US universities where you can just take any course you wanted on any given semester (once its offered); you don't need to worry about the "start of the year" as in high school (well maybe not even high school).
I assume that this is for UofT and not UW?

I wouldn't be surprised if UW does the same thing. I once wanted to apply to UW for a program, but it was January start, and I got rejected on the basis that they don't offer a January start and that I should re-apply for September! That was a $150 application.

 

[ChaoticLlama]

You can't simply say Harvard>UofT always, forever and ever in everything; period.

If you have attend both universities, or did some comparison between the layout of their programs, then you could say math is better here, engineering is better there or w/e conclusion you want to draw.

That said, US universities receive significantly more funding than Canadian universities.
Waterloo received a paltry 157.3 mil last year, with 23,000 undergrads.
UofT, the highest funded university in Canada, received 1.629 B with 33,000 undergrads.
Harvard, received a massive 30.71 billion with merely 6,700 undergrads, but significantly more postgrads.

This would lead me to believe that a university is known more for the amount of research they produce, thus spreading the names of US institutions world-wide.
Because our universities receive less funding, research in Canada is not what it could be, thus the names of our universities are not as well known.

Might I say, this is not telling at all of the quality of education that students receive, and I cannot comment on any school but my own.

(all money in CAN$)

 

[George Jones]

CBC lovers

Yes, I am!

And when I lived in the U.S., I listened to NPR.

 

[Werg22]

You can't simply say Harvard>UofT always, forever and ever in everything; period.

If you have attend both universities, or did some comparison between the layout of their programs, then you could say math is better here, engineering is better there or w/e conclusion you want to draw.

That said, US universities receive significantly more funding than Canadian universities.
Waterloo received a paltry 157.3 mil last year, with 23,000 undergrads.
UofT, the highest funded university in Canada, received 1.629 B with 33,000 undergrads.
Harvard, received a massive 30.71 billion with merely 6,700 undergrads, but significantly more postgrads.

This would lead me to believe that a university is known more for the amount of research they produce, thus spreading the names of US institutions world-wide.
Because our universities receive less funding, research in Canada is not what it could be, thus the names of our universities are not as well known.

Might I say, this is not telling at all of the quality of education that students receive, and I cannot comment on any school but my own.

(all money in CAN$)

The social context is not the same. Many Harvard Alumni are quite wealthy and a large part of the funding Harvard receives is in the form of generous donations by those Alumni.

 

[J77]

I just spent a week in a Canadian uni -- it was very nice.

Nothing more to add

 

[budala]

I remember in my Canadian high school we would always say to one another, 'oh don't worry if you can't get into the Toronto, Ontario university, you can always get into the state's.' It's well known among students and parents that there is always the easier option of going to the U.S. for university and getting a nice scholarship. Lots of students who get rejected from Ontario universities flock to the American ones so they can complete their degree.

 

[JasonRox]

I remember in my Canadian high school we would always say to one another, 'oh don't worry if you can't get into the Toronto, Ontario university, you can always get into the state's.' It's well known among students and parents that there is always the easier option of going to the U.S. for university and getting a nice scholarship. Lots of students who get rejected from Ontario universities flock to the American ones so they can complete their degree.

Very true. I know many students personally who went to the US.

 

[George Jones]

Very true. I know many students personally who went to the US.

Because they coundn't get into any Canadian universities? Or because they wanted to go to school in the U.S.?

 

[JasonRox]

Because they coundn't get into any Canadian universities? Or because they wanted to go to school in the U.S.?

Both, and because of scholarships.

 

[leright]

I remember in my Canadian high school we would always say to one another, 'oh don't worry if you can't get into the Toronto, Ontario university, you can always get into the state's.' It's well known among students and parents that there is always the easier option of going to the U.S. for university and getting a nice scholarship. Lots of students who get rejected from Ontario universities flock to the American ones so they can complete their degree.

Well, sure, there are many more lower end schools in the United States willing to accept less than stellar students, but this is certainly not a bad thing. It just shows that the US higher education system has a higher capacity. IMO, the more people able to get an education, the better.

Also, I doubt the top of the line US schools are easier to get into than the top of the line Canadian schools. AFAIK, U Toronto just requires at least a 90% average in HS. This is nice because there is a concrete requirement to get in. The top US schools don't have such concrete requirements. You could be a straight A student, have good ECs, a solid ACT scores and still be rejected by MIT or Harvard.

I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate information, but this is what I have heard in the past. I'm just baffled how people can claim the US schools are worse than the Canadians schools. Sure, it's true that the US might have many many more lower end schools willing to accept more people, but the high end schools in the US (MIT, harvard, stanford, yale, UChicago, princeton, UC Berkeley, UMich, Cornell, Dartmouth, etc etc) are definitely no worse than the best Canadian schools.

 

[neurocomp2003]

the 90% GPA requirement doesn't guarantee a spot in UfT...it means that they will look at your application and that they will not accept students below unless special circumstances are involved.

 

[CPL.Luke]

interesting that nobody has answered the OP yet...

In case he has not abandoned this thread yet here is what he would probably go through. In the US your "year" is calculated based on the number of credits you are able to transfer. however if there was no calc 2 or physics 2 or anything like that than you won't be considered a 3rd yaer engineering major. But, you will be able to take a lot more core classes this way.

 

[mathwonk]

i think it is well known that the further north one lives, the smarter he is, so all Canadians are smarter than americans, hence their universities have to be harder with higher admission standards, except for the token spots they leave for us US applicants. e.g nunavut arctic college or medicine hat college are much better and tougher than princeton or harvard, as any fool can plainly see.

 

[oedipa maas]

i think it is well known that the further north one lives, the smarter he is, so all Canadians are smarter than americans, hence their universities have to be harder with higher admission standards, except for the token spots they leave for us US applicants. e.g nunavut arctic college or medicine hat college are much better and tougher than princeton or harvard, as any fool can plainly see.

This must explain how I wound up in New Zealand.

 

[budala]

i think it is well known that the further north one lives, the smarter he is, so all Canadians are smarter than americans, hence their universities have to be harder with higher admission standards, except for the token spots they leave for us US applicants. e.g nunavut arctic college or medicine hat college are much better and tougher than princeton or harvard, as any fool can plainly see.

Americans are showing signs of allergies, probably weather to be blamed

 

[renigade666]

You could be a straight A student, have good ECs, a solid ACT scores.

What are these? Do your 'SAT' scores not matter so much for MIT/Harvard etc. schools or did you just not add them in?
As for the other universities, how much does the SAT scores matter vs high school grades?

 

[CPL.Luke]

the ACT is another test that is equivalent to the SAT, from what I've heard west coast schools tend to prefer the ACT while east coast schools care more about the SAT. however top schools in the US tend to take pride in taking in the whole package, analysing the essay, GPA, and test scores.

I remember back in high school I was in a psych class where we looked at a series of real applications to UC Berkely. There was one student who had a C average and 500 sat scores, he got in because he worked in a lab during high school. there was another student who had straight A's near perfect SAT scores and a laundry list of extracurriculars, She didn't get in because she worte a perfect essay about how she got her drivers license.

 

[mathwonk]

the best way to get admitted to a school is to be a member of an under represented class currently under focus by that school. for example, when i was a high school student i was helped by the fact that many top schools were looking for stupid, naive, poorly educated boys from backwards southern states, with low standardized scores, mediocre grades, questionable morals, pimples, and bad breath. of course things may have changed.

 

[CPL.Luke]

hey the supreme court did just rule that schools could not use racially basoed admittion parameters

 

[marcus]

I got into a few American schools (including Princeton, for those who care about 'big names') but chose to go to the University of Waterloo in Ontario. Three years later, I'm confident I made the right choice. I can't imagine a better place for undergrad math.

People in Perimeter Institute (at Waterloo) seem pretty happy about it.
Scott Aaronson praises the place.
Bee Hossenfelder turned down a prestigeous Noether fellowship to go there and seems pleased about everything except the weather.

Of course you are the judge, but I expect you did make the right choice.

 

[neurocomp2003]

but do they actually live in teh city of waterloo? it seems rather dead the last time i visited...but i guess its a good place to raise a family.

 

[mathwonk]

yes cpluke, but nothing about bad breath yet.

 

[machivelli314]

Institutions like Harvard, John Hopkins, MIT, Stanford, Berkley etc. carry allot more weight than any Canadian university.

I got accepted to a few top Canadian schools, but I'm trying to figure out whether it is worth it for me to cross over to the US...

Does anyone happen to have a copy of 'curious Canadian guide to US colleges'? I heard it was pretty good but they seem to be sold out everywhere. I'd be interested in buying a used copy.