Understanding Differential Mode of BJT

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the differential mode operation of bipolar junction transistors (BJTs), specifically addressing the behavior of emitter voltages in response to varying base voltages. Participants explore the implications of base-emitter voltages (VBE) and the effects of a constant current source in the circuit.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the emitter voltage is +0.3V instead of -0.7V when +1V is applied to the base of Q1 and 0V to Q2, suggesting that VBE must be +0.7V for the transistor to function.
  • Others note that Q1 pulls the emitters to +0.3V while Q2 cannot sink the voltage, attributing this to the non-linear behavior of bipolar transistors.
  • It is mentioned that 0.7V is not a universal value for VBE, with variations depending on the type of bipolar transistor.
  • Some participants explain that the constant current source in the emitter leads affects how current is shared between the transistors, leading to different VBE values.
  • There is a discussion about the practicality of VBE values, with one participant suggesting that if Q1 were to receive a lot of base current, it could deprive Q2 of emitter current, affecting its operation.
  • Questions are raised about whether one transistor must be on while the other is off in differential mode, with some suggesting that both can operate in the linear range with one conducting slightly more than the other.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the behavior of the BJTs in differential mode, with no clear consensus on the conditions under which both transistors can operate simultaneously or the implications of different VBE values.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence of VBE on specific transistor characteristics and the influence of the constant current source, indicating that assumptions about ideal behavior may not hold in practical scenarios.

kr0z3n
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I'm trying to understand the differential mode for a BJT. For the second picture, when we apply +1V to the base of Q1 and 0V to the base of Q2. Why is the emitter voltage .3V instead of -.7V? Similarity, for the third picture, why is the emitter voltage -.7V instead of 1.7V?
Thanks for the help!
 

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kr0z3n said:
I'm trying to understand the differential mode for a BJT. For the second picture, when we apply +1V to the base of Q1 and 0V to the base of Q2. Why is the emitter voltage .3V instead of -.7V?
Because VBE of the ON transistor must be +0.7V.
Similarity, for the third picture, why is the emitter voltage -.7V instead of 1.7V?
For the same reason. If VBE is any value other than +0.7V it follows that an NPN transistor will not be functioning.
 
Because Q1 pulls the emitters to +0.3V while Q2 can't sink the voltage. It results from the non-linear behaviour of bipolar transistors, whose emitter current increases brutally if the base-emitter voltage exceeds the threshold.

By the way, 0.7V is not a universal value. A low-power bipolar has rather 0.6V or 0.65V, while many-amps bipolar can have 1.5V, most of it being wasted in the stray resistances to access the emitter and the base.
 
kr0z3n said:
I'm trying to understand the differential mode for a BJT. For the second picture, when we apply +1V to the base of Q1 and 0V to the base of Q2. Why is the emitter voltage .3V instead of -.7V?
Note the constant current source, I, in the emitter leads. So as one transistor conducts better and takes more emitter current, it deprives the other transistor of an equal amount of current. Whichever transistor has the greater VBE* has the greater IB therefore its emitter (and collector) will take the greater share of the fixed bias current, I.

* being a PN junction it obeys the V-I exponential curve

Back to your first question. If the emitter voltage is 0.3V, then Q1 has VBE=0.7V and Q2 has VBE=–0.3V, whereas if the emitter voltage were –0.7V, then Q1 would have VBE=+1.7V and Q2 would have VBE=0.7V

VBE=+1.7V is impractical here, but let's imagine Q1 was to be given a lot of base current, then it would take all of the available emitter current, I, in turn depriving Q2 of emitter current and turning Q2 off, meaning VBE of Q2 would fall below 0.7V.
 
NascentOxygen said:
Note the constant current source, I, in the emitter leads. So as one transistor conducts better and takes more emitter current, it deprives the other transistor of an equal amount of current. Whichever transistor has the greater VBE* has the greater IB therefore its emitter (and collector) will take the greater share of the fixed bias current, I.

* being a PN junction it obeys the V-I exponential curve

Back to your first question. If the emitter voltage is 0.3V, then Q1 has VBE=0.7V and Q2 has VBE=–0.3V, whereas if the emitter voltage were –0.7V, then Q1 would have VBE=+1.7V and Q2 would have VBE=0.7V

VBE=+1.7V is impractical here, but let's imagine Q1 was to be given a lot of base current, then it would take all of the available emitter current, I, in turn depriving Q2 of emitter current and turning Q2 off, meaning VBE of Q2 would fall below 0.7V.

So when analyzing the circuit, one of the transistors BE voltage has to be .7 and the other has to be less than .7? If Vbe is greater than .7 then it would be wrong? Also when doing these diff bjt, is it always one transistor on and one off? or can it have both transistors on?
 
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kr0z3n said:
So when analyzing the circuit, one of the transistors BE voltage has to be .7 and the other has to be less than .7? If Vbe is greater than .7 then it would be wrong? Also when doing these diff bjt, is it always one transistor on and one off? or can it have both transistors on?
The extreme limit is when one is on and the other off. Normally they operate in the linear range, so one transistor conducts a little more than the other, according to the input level.

The transistors being on the same chip and therefore "identical", then the base-emitter voltage will be an indication of emitter current, in accord with the normal PN junction characteristic. So the transistor with the greater emitter current may have VBE=0.704V and the other may be 0.695V.
 
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