Understanding Orbital Shapes: The Probability of Electron Location

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Orbital shapes represent regions where electrons are likely to be found, but quantum mechanics indicates that there's a non-zero probability of finding an electron almost anywhere in space. While the idea of "stealing" an electron from a distance is humorously suggested, the probability of locating an electron far from its nucleus is exceedingly low, making such scenarios practically impossible. Measurement plays a crucial role in determining an electron's position; until measured, an electron does not have a defined location. Energy conservation in quantum mechanics is complex, and no energy is required to measure an electron's position in its ground state. Overall, the discussion emphasizes the probabilistic nature of electron locations and the fundamental principles of quantum mechanics.
  • #51
Nugatory said:
Does the electron interact with the trapper or does it not? If it does, the electron has been detected in the location defined by the trapper, whether someone looks or not. If it does not, then there is no detection and the electron still has no position.

Yes, electron interacts with the trapper.

Nugatory said:
To measure the position of the electron you have to interact with it, and that interaction supplies any necessary energy. The total energy of the system (nucleus, electron, and measuring device) is conserved.

Does the trapper's interaction supplies energy for the electron to come far from the nucleus? :confused:
 
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  • #52
Meson080 said:
Does the trapper's interaction supplies energy for the electron to come far from the nucleus? :confused:

That was answered back in #13 of this thread - yes.

There is one quantum system consisting of an electron, the trapper device, and the nucleus. The total energy of that system is conserved as it goes from the state "electron is bound to nucleus" to "trapper has trapped electron".
 
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  • #53
Nugatory said:
That was answered back in #13 of this thread - yes.

There is one quantum system consisting of an electron, the trapper device, and the nucleus. The total energy of that system is conserved as it goes from the state "electron is bound to nucleus" to "trapper has trapped electron".

Do you think the trapper gives the electron an energy, to run from the nucleus for a long, long distance? :devil:
 
  • #54
Meson080 said:
Do you think the trapper gives the electron an energy, to run from the nucleus for a long, long distance? :devil:
The electron doesn't run a long long distance in this scenario. It was unlocalized prior to the measurement, and it was localized after the measurement. It didn't run a long distance because it wasn't localized before the measurement. It was localized in a surprising location, but that does not imply that it went through some definite classical path to get there.
 
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  • #55
Meson080 said:
Do you think the trapper gives the electron an energy, to run from the nucleus for a long, long distance? :devil:

No, because when you say "run from" the nucleus , you're implying that the electron is moving from near the nucleus to into the trapper (what else could "run from" mean?) and that only makes sense if it's moving, and it can only move if it has a position that can change, and we've already said about 83 bazillion times that it doesn't have a position. (You might want to google for "quantum tunneling" for an example of why we cannot say that the electron "moves" from near the nucleus to near the trapper).

What I can say is that the total energy of the system is the same (assuming that we didn't have to provide power to the trapping device) before and after the electron is trapped. It doesn't work to think of the "energy of the electron", the "energy of the nucleus", and "the energy of the trapper" as three separate pools that energy moves between - the total energy of the system comes from the interactions between the nucleus, the electron, and the trapper.

(BTW, the standard term for what you're calling a "trapper" is "detector")
 
  • #56
Ok big guns, give the conclusion for the main question, I will read QM. Thank you for all your cooperation.
 
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