Understanding Smith Charts

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of Smith Charts in determining the shortest distance from a load to a point on a transmission line where the line impedance exhibits its highest inductive reactance. Participants explore the theoretical and practical aspects of this topic, including the implications of load impedance, transmission line length, and characteristic impedance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the method to find the shortest distance from the load to where the line impedance has its highest inductive reactance, given specific parameters like load impedance, transmission line length, and characteristic impedance.
  • Another participant suggests plotting a point on the Smith Chart and using a compass to find the desired value, while also noting that the concept of highest inductance may not be significant due to the combination of inductance and capacitance at each point.
  • A detailed explanation is provided regarding the process of using the Smith Chart, including finding load impedance, drawing lines to represent phase offsets, and understanding the implications of inductive and capacitive loading on the chart.
  • Participants discuss the concept of maximum reactive loading occurring at 0 degrees of wavelength distance, relating it to open circuit loads and resonances in parallel LC networks.
  • There is mention of "forbidden regions" on the Smith Chart that arise from certain matching solutions being physically impossible, which some participants find intriguing in relation to duality concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and approaches to using the Smith Chart, with some agreeing on the general methodology while others raise questions about the significance of certain concepts, indicating that multiple views remain on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions regarding the definitions of inductive and capacitive loading, as well as the implications of using the Smith Chart, are not fully resolved. The discussion includes references to mathematical properties and physical interpretations that may require further clarification.

binhexoctdec
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Hi everyone,

I'm wondering if given a particular load impedance (Zl) and some general information such as length of the transmission line, characteristic impedance (Zo) and wavelength λ how would you be able to determine shortest distance from the load to the location on the line where the line impedance has its highest inductive reactance?

Thanks!
 
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Plot the point, use a compass with the needle at the center, the other side on the point. Draw a circle and find the value you want on the circle! Simple!

But highest inductance don't mean a thing, because each point is a combination of L and C either in series or parallel.

Make sure you go clockwise for the length of the tx line.
 
binhexoctdec said:
Hi everyone,

I'm wondering if given a particular load impedance (Zl) and some general information such as length of the transmission line, characteristic impedance (Zo) and wavelength λ how would you be able to determine shortest distance from the load to the location on the line where the line impedance has its highest inductive reactance?

Thanks!

http://radiomagonline.com/media/2010/0910/009rad0701_Large.jpg

http://na.tm.agilent.com/pna/help/latest/smith_chart.gif

  1. Find the load impedance on the Smith Chart. This is always a single point on the chart. (In other uses of a Smith Chart you can start with the point of the source Thevenin impedance).
  2. Draw line from the center through the point to the radial perimeter - this is the phase offset of the load (or if you started with the source Thevenin, the source Thevenin phase)
  3. Increase or decrease the angle along the radial perimeter (there is a direction labeled "toward generator" (CCW) or "away from generator" (CW)) to equivalently shortening or lengthening the transmission line attached to the load (or source)
  4. Inductive loading is the upper half plane. Capacitive loading is the lower half plane.
  5. As you lengthen or shorten the transmission line you rotate the angle but then you must follow the radial line back to the line of constant resistance which is what the effective load follows as you change transmission line length. If you started with a source Thevenin, and move to the load point, that phase angle between these two points is the stub length of transmission line required to match source to load.
  6. Maximum reactive loading (inductive or capacitive) occurs at 0 degrees (of wavelength distance) which corresponds to the equivalent of a perfect open circuit load by distant such that the standing waves are maximized as if you had an open load. This is also equivalent to a parallel LC at resonance where the LC net reactive impedances goes to infinity leaving only the parallel R (which in a parallel LC is ideally infinite also). An open or short on a transmission line termination is a physically-defined electrical resonance analogous to a parallel or series LC network resonance, respectively.
A Smith Chart, btw, is a conformal map between the Lumped Model impedance and the Distributed Model transmission line and load. Conformal maps are functions that are mathematically "analytic". It turns out that solutions to Maxwell's[/PLAIN] equations are necessarily analytic so this becomes a system property.

Perhaps most oddly interesting is that if you used lumped model filters to do transmission line matching (e.g. to do an antenna loading coil to minimize its physical length but maintaining an electrical match), you must use the "dual" components of inductors and capacitors, minimally as L-networks. Because for positive, real valued inductors and capacitors, there are certain "matching solutions" that are physically impossible and give rise to so-called "forbidden regions" of solutions on the Smith Chart. These regions are "http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/images/Simple%20Visio%20Smith%20Chart%20-%20Forbidden%20LowRight.png": the form of one of the most ancient "duality" symbols of humanity

Yes, the Ying and Yang of Daoism which is totally cool even beyond the core symmetry of Eulers[/PLAIN] Formula in the complex plane that gives rise to all of this by virtue of being "the general solution" to Maxwell's equations.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jsgruszynski said:
http://radiomagonline.com/media/2010/0910/009rad0701_Large.jpg

http://na.tm.agilent.com/pna/help/latest/smith_chart.gif

  1. Find the load impedance on the Smith Chart. This is always a single point on the chart. (In other uses of a Smith Chart you can start with the point of the source Thevenin impedance).
  2. Draw line from the center through the point to the radial perimeter - this is the phase offset of the load (or if you started with the source Thevenin, the source Thevenin phase)
  3. Increase or decrease the angle along the radial perimeter (there is a direction labeled "toward generator" (CCW) or "away from generator" (CW)) to equivalently shortening or lengthening the transmission line attached to the load (or source)
  4. Inductive loading is the upper half plane. Capacitive loading is the lower half plane.
  5. As you lengthen or shorten the transmission line you rotate the angle but then you must follow the radial line back to the line of constant resistance which is what the effective load follows as you change transmission line length. If you started with a source Thevenin, and move to the load point, that phase angle between these two points is the stub length of transmission line required to match source to load.
  6. Maximum reactive loading (inductive or capacitive) occurs at 0 degrees (of wavelength distance) which corresponds to the equivalent of a perfect open circuit load by distant such that the standing waves are maximized as if you had an open load. This is also equivalent to a parallel LC at resonance where the LC net reactive impedances goes to infinity leaving only the parallel R (which in a parallel LC is ideally infinite also). An open or short on a transmission line termination is a physically-defined electrical resonance analogous to a parallel or series LC network resonance, respectively.
A Smith Chart, btw, is a conformal map between the Lumped Model impedance and the Distributed Model transmission line and load. Conformal maps are functions that are mathematically "analytic". It turns out that solutions to Maxwell's[/PLAIN] equations are necessarily analytic so this becomes a system property.

Perhaps most oddly interesting is that if you used lumped model filters to do transmission line matching (e.g. to do an antenna loading coil to minimize its physical length but maintaining an electrical match), you must use the "dual" components of inductors and capacitors, minimally as L-networks. Because for positive, real valued inductors and capacitors, there are certain "matching solutions" that are physically impossible and give rise to so-called "forbidden regions" of solutions on the Smith Chart. These regions are "http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/images/Simple%20Visio%20Smith%20Chart%20-%20Forbidden%20LowRight.png": the form of one of the most ancient "duality" symbols of humanity

Yes, the Ying and Yang of Daoism which is totally cool even beyond the core symmetry of Eulers[/PLAIN] Formula in the complex plane that gives rise to all of this by virtue of being "the general solution" to Maxwell's equations.

Thanks for your very informative response! After reading through it I think understand now how to go about solving the problem.
 
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