Understanding the Equivalence of Two Mechanical Systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the equivalence of two mechanical systems depicted in a provided image. Participants explore the mechanics of force distribution among various components and the application of Newton's laws in this context. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications related to mechanical systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how force is distributed equally among components M, K1, K2, B1, and B2, questioning the basis for this assumption.
  • Another participant suggests that writing equations for a simpler case, such as two springs, may clarify the situation, proposing that the total impedance is the sum of individual impedances.
  • A third participant comments on the similarity of their textbook to another's, indicating a shared reference point in the discussion.
  • One participant proposes a rethinking of the mass M as a block supported by springs and dashpots, emphasizing the importance of vertical motion and suggesting that the horizontal distribution can be ignored.
  • A later reply corrects a grammatical issue in a participant's question and reiterates Newton's Second Law, clarifying that the sum of forces equals M*a rather than implying a single force does so.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there are differing interpretations of the mechanical systems and the application of forces. Some participants propose clarifications while others express confusion, indicating that multiple views remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of force distribution and the implications of Newton's laws. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the mechanical systems in question.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and professionals in mechanical engineering, physics, and related fields who are exploring concepts of force distribution and mechanical system equivalence.

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I cannot understand the mechanical systems in the picture. In the picture a) how can f is scattered equally to M, K1, K2, B1 and B2 ? Where do you know this? How can two systems be equivalent of each other?

In the picture (b) if f is applied, how can the force on M is Ma, a is acceleration.

IMG_1461.JPG


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View attachment 111153

Source: Automatic Control Engineering by Francis H.Raven

Thank you.
 
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Text is perfectly clear. But I concede it's a bit weird at first: after all the various elements seem to be in parallel.

Perhaps it becomes clearer to you if you write the equations for a simpler case.

E.g. just the two springs: ##\ f = (K_1 + K_2) x\ .\ ## And you see that ##\ Z_{\rm tot} = Z_1 + Z_2 \ ## -- that's why they call it series.

Now add the mass and write the equation linking ##\ f, \ M, \ K_1, \ K_2 \ ## in a similar form.

Once you get that, the ##C_1p## and ##C_2p## are a piece of cake.
 
Ah, Berk has a copy too ! Or did he just pimp yours :smile:? Mine is a first student edition ( 1961 :rolleyes: ) where it's page 15 with exactly the same text .
 
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I suspect that the beam-like appearance of the mass M is part of what is throwing you off. Instead, think of M as more of a block with two springs and two dashpots supporting it. The external force F acts on the block, as well as forces from each spring and dashpot. All that is of interest here is vertical motion, so ignore the horizontal distribution of elements.

Your question about (b) is not grammatically correct English. Remember what Newton's Second Law says: The SUM of forces on the mass is M*a, not that any single force is M*a.
 

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