Understanding Van der Waals P-V Graph and the Maxwell Equal Area Rule

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    Graph Van der waals
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the van der Waals equation and its implications for understanding phase behavior in fluids, particularly in relation to the Maxwell equal area rule on a pressure-volume (P-V) graph. Participants explore the conditions under which multiple volumes can exist at the same pressure and temperature below the critical temperature, and the significance of these states in terms of liquid and vapor phases.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of having three possible volumes at a given pressure below the critical temperature and whether this implies a change in volume between these states.
  • Another participant describes the behavior of a real fluid in a cylinder, noting that during evaporation, pressure remains constant while volume increases, indicating the coexistence of liquid and vapor phases.
  • It is mentioned that the van der Waals equation produces a smooth graph without distinct liquid and vapor phases, yet acknowledges the possibility of coexisting states at the extremes of the volume range.
  • A participant asserts that the van der Waals equation is a rough approximation and does not accurately describe real materials, suggesting that the observed three volumes at a given pressure and temperature should not be surprising.
  • There is a recognition that thermodynamics often involves approximations and predictions, with no clear consensus on the validity of certain approaches discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the van der Waals equation in describing real materials and the implications of having multiple volumes at the same pressure. There is no consensus on the best approach to interpret these phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the van der Waals equation may not fully capture the complexities of phase transitions and that the discussion involves approximations that may not apply universally.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_equation
(the graph of Maxwell equal area rule)

When the temperature is under the critical temperature, then at certain pressure, there will be three possible point for the volume of the system.
What does that mean? Do they mean the volume of the system will change between that 3 volume?
From the above link, they say they will be phase for liquid and gas, what do they mean?
Thank you.
 
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It's usual (but not mandatory) to think of volume as the independent variable. Suppose we have a real fluid at a given temperature in a cylinder fitted with a piston. We then slowly pull out the piston and plot the isothermal on a p – V diagram as the pressure changes. If we start with a real liquid below the critical temperature, we find a portion of the graph where the pressure does't change, even though we're increasing the volume. This is when the liquid is evaporating, so the cylinder has both liquid and vapour in it. Then, at a large enough cylinder volume, all the liquid has evaporated and we're left with vapour - whose pressure falls when we increase the volume further.

The V der W equation results in a smooth graph with no flat portion. There is no hint of liquid and vapour being present together. Indeed, there is no real hint of distinguishable liquid and vapour states at all. But, as you say, below the critical temperature there are 3 different volumes on the same isothermal at which the substance has the same pressure (and temperature). There's nothing to stop the substance co-existing in the two states furthest apart, as they'd be in mechanical and thermal equilibrium. [We leave out the middle one because it's on the unstable bit of graph.] The equation doesn't tell us that this co-existence will happen, but it doesn't rule it out either. Thus we can magic a flat portion of graph by constructing it from a variable proportion mixture of the fluid in the two extreme equal volume states, rather than from the peak-and-trough bit of the V der W curve.

I believe that there's never been consensus on whether this approach is valid.
 
Last edited:
The van der Waals equation does not describe the behavior of any real material. It is only a rough approximation to the behavior of real materials, which, in the limit of large volume per mole, approaches the ideal gas equation. So don't be too surprised if there are three volumes at a given pressure and temperature. The approach described by Philip Wood improves the aesthetic comparison between the van deer Waals equation and the vapor-liquid phase transition of real gases, and it may in some cases also improve the quantitative comparison.
 
Philip Wood said:
Indeed, there is no real hint of distinguishable liquid and vapour states at all. But, as you say, below the critical temperature there are 3 different volumes on the same isothermal at which the substance has the same pressure (and temperature). There's nothing to stop the substance co-existing in the two states furthest apart, as they'd be in mechanical and thermal equilibrium.

Seem like everything in thermodynamics are approximation and prediction.
Thank you guys for answering.
 

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