Understanding what a stagnation point is in compressible flow

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of stagnation points in compressible flow, particularly in the context of fluid dynamics. Participants explore definitions, examples, and the implications of stagnation points in both inviscid and viscous flows, as well as the mathematical and engineering perspectives on the topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a flow into a stationary wall, where the x velocity becomes zero, constitutes a stagnation point.
  • Another participant agrees with the initial example but emphasizes that stagnation points occur when local velocity is zero in one direction, noting that fluid cannot be zero in all directions without causing a buildup.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that for inviscid flow, stagnation points can be defined as locations where velocity is zero, regardless of directionality.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of back-flow and the assumption of inelastic interactions at stagnation points, particularly in the context of pitot tubes.
  • Some participants argue that stagnation points must have zero velocity in all directions, citing examples like the leading edge of an aircraft wing and the tip of a pitot tube.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between stagnation points and stagnation lines, particularly in relation to swept versus unswept wings.
  • One participant mentions the mathematical approach to stagnation points, contrasting it with the engineering perspective, and highlights the complexities involved in defining zero velocity at these points.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and characteristics of stagnation points, with no consensus reached regarding the necessity of zero velocity in all directions. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in defining stagnation points, particularly regarding assumptions about fluid behavior at these points and the complexities introduced by viscosity and turbulence.

  • #31
That wasn't even the original question. The original question was whether the flow velocity had to be zero in all directions for it to be a stagnation point. It does.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Studiot said:
The real flow has the appearance of a coordinated stream that moves with uniform velocity until it encounters the plate, whereon it curves round and spreads out with radial symmetry about a centreline and flows at sensibly right angles to its original direction. The solution also contains straight lines AD and BC along the axes, meeting at right angles at S in a sharp corner. These are continuous everywhere and have a defined derivative nearly everywhere. But as S the derivative is indeterminate or undefined.
No, that is not correct. The derivative is well defined there, because the entire flow (in the fluid description we are using) is determined by a velocity field. At the stagnation point (in compressible or incompressible flows), the velocity field is zero (in all directions, as boneh3ad and others stressed), and also has zero divergence. Not undefined divergence, zero divergence. This is also why it takes an infinite time to reach the stagnation point, and why there is no "train pile up" there, and no mathematical difficulties for the idealized fluid model.
But there is a further twist, introduced by my_wan. And this is Physics rather than Maths.
What is the mechanism by which momentum in the AD direction can be turned into momentum in the SB and SC direction?
Momentum in one direction is never "turned into" momentum in another direction. Momentum is a vector, and its components obey the laws of physics entirely independently of each other. To stop a momentum toward the wall, you need a force away from the wall. To start a momentum along the wall, you need a force along the wall. Pressure forces do all this just fine, even at stagnation points. There are no mathematical difficulties presented by stagnation points in the fluid description, and Newton's laws encounter no singularities there. I do not see why you are framing any of this as "twists" or "wrinkles", it is all basic fluid mechanics. But the diagrams and the scenario you are describing may indeed be useful to the OPer, if they simply read past all the intimations of dire singularities here!
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K