Universal Property for Coproducts in Ab

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Math Amateur
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Property Universal
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Problem 3.3 from Paolo Aluffi's book, "Algebra: Chapter 0," specifically focusing on the concept of coproducts in the category of abelian groups. Participants are exploring the definitions and properties of coproducts, as well as the implications of the problem presented.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter expresses feeling overwhelmed by Problem 3.3 and seeks assistance in understanding what is required.
  • Caffeinemachine argues that $G \times H$ cannot be considered the coproduct in the category of abelian groups without the accompanying morphisms, clarifying that it should be presented with the maps $i$ and $j$.
  • Caffeinemachine outlines the verification process for establishing the uniqueness of the homomorphism $z$ that satisfies the required properties.
  • A later reply from another participant emphasizes the necessity for $G$ to be abelian for the map $z$ to be a homomorphism, noting that in the broader category of groups, coproducts are free products.
  • Peter acknowledges the help received and expresses gratitude for the support in understanding these abstract concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of the conditions under which coproducts are defined in the category of abelian groups, but there is a lack of consensus on the broader implications of coproducts in other categories, such as groups in general.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the definitions and properties of coproducts, particularly concerning the distinction between abelian groups and general groups, as well as the specific requirements for the homomorphism to hold.

Math Amateur
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
3,920
Reaction score
48
I am reading Paolo Aluffi's book, Algebra: Chapter 0.

I am currently focused on Chapter II, Section 3: The Category Grp.

I need some help in getting started on Problem 3.3 in this section.

Problem 3.3 at the end of Chapter III, Section 3 reads as follows:https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/4503I am slightly overwhelmed by this problem ... if someone can help me to understand what is required as well giving me significant help with the problem then I would be extremely grateful ...

To give MHB members an idea of the context and Aluffi's notation, I am npow providing Section 5.5 Coproducts ...View attachment 4504
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/4505

Hope someone can help ...

Peter
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Peter said:
I am reading Paolo Aluffi's book, Algebra: Chapter 0.

I am currently focused on Chapter II, Section 3: The Category Grp.

I need some help in getting started on Problem 3.3 in this section.

Problem 3.3 at the end of Chapter III, Section 3 reads as follows:I am slightly overwhelmed by this problem ... if someone can help me to understand what is required as well giving me significant help with the problem then I would be extremely grateful ...

To give MHB members an idea of the context and Aluffi's notation, I am npow providing Section 5.5 Coproducts ...Hope someone can help ...

Peter
As such $G\times H$ cannot be the coproduct in the category of Abelain groups. It is rather meaningless to say that.

What one ought to say is that $G\times H$ coupled with the maps $i:G\to G\times H$ and $j:H\to G\times H$ is the coproduct of $G$ and $H$ in the category of abelian groups, where $i(g)=(g, e)$ for all $g\in G$, and similarly for $j$.

But nobody writes this for the sake of brevity.

Now. To verify this is very easy. What we need to do is that if we have any other group $M$ with homomorphisms $p:G\to M$ and $q:H\to M$, we need to show that there is a unique homomorphism $z:G\times H\to M$ such that $z\circ i=p$ and $z\circ j=q$ (draw the commutative diagram!).

If at all there is such a homomorphism in existence, then we must have $z(g, e)=p(g)$ and $z(e, h)=q(h)$ for all $g\in G$ and $h\in H$. And from here we are forced to have $z(g, h)=p(g)q(h)$ for all $(g, h)\in G\times H$.

So we have only one candidate for $z$. It is easy to verify that this candidate is indeed a homomorphism and we are done.
 
Hi Peter,

Since caffeinemachine has given a solution to the exercise, I'd like to check your understanding of the initial paragraph of section 5.5 where the author discusses products and coproducts in general. Given objects $A$ and $B$ in category $\mathcal{C}$, can you write or draw a typical object and morphism in $\mathcal{C}^{A,B}$? This is important, since you'll be able to use that knowledge to write out the definition of a coproduct of $A$ and $B$ being an initial object in $\mathcal{C}^{A,B}$ (with full diagrams).
 
Also, keep in mind that it's necessary for $G$ to be abelian in order for caffeinemachine's map $z$ to be a homomorphism. This is why the author emphasizes abelian. In the larger general category of groups, the coproducts are free products.
 
Euge said:
Also, keep in mind that it's necessary for $G$ to be abelian in order for caffeinemachine's map $z$ to be a homomorphism. This is why the author emphasizes abelian. In the larger general category of groups, the coproducts are free products.
Euge, Caffeinemachine ... Thanks so much for your help ...

Wonderful to have such support in understanding abstract notions ...

Thanks again ...

Peter
 

Similar threads

Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
7K