Discover the Power of Linux with Mandrake and Redhat: A User's Experience

[Futurist]

Linux is great !

I started to use linux mandrake and redhat, both i installed on my HDD.

The KDE has a better look than windows.

 

[Galatea]

Yes, linux is great, I agree. I started out with Mandrake.. never actually used RedHat except for briefly at a place I used to work at (version 6.2 if I remember correctly.)

I currently use Debian and am very happy with it although I think that though KDE is better than the Windows desktop, Gnome (+ either Sawfish or Metacity) or Blackbox are cooler than KDE, but I won't be starting any religious linux wars.

I hope you enjoy it as much as the rest of us linux converts!

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I use Mandrake sometimes. If your not a programmer there isn't any reason to use Linux. Stick with Mac or Windows if your an app user.

 

[Saint]

I'm using Mandrake 9.0 and Redhat 8.0.

Windows is great too, therefore I install dual boot system.

 

[STAii]

Day after day i notice how bad windows is.
I had a folder with like 6000 files, only opening the folder took kind of 10 seconds ! (not that much, but not too low too !).

I also once saw the unassemled boot loader of win 95, i can tell you IT SUCKS !

Linux is good, problem is apps.

 

[Galatea]

Originally posted by Greg Bernhardt
I use Mandrake sometimes. If your not a programmer there isn't any reason to use Linux. Stick with Mac or Windows if your an app user.

Any reason you think this? I've been a dedicated linux user for ~7 months now and have never had a problem finding an app to suit my needs - in fact I usually find a multitude of them with different variations that not only do the job better than any program on windows, but also are free.

For the record, I'm not a programmer and linux has replaced windows as my primary OS. The problem of applications not being ported to linux was solved a while ago and while I'm sure you won't be able to find say.. your favorite Macromedia application (i.e. Dreamweaver) you are sure to find 100 suitable alternatives as I have (such as Bluefish, Mozilla composer, etc.) Not to mention the GIMP which is an excellent image editor and as a former Photoshop user, I would say that besides having to learn a new piece of software, it doesn't disappoint at all.

Rethink your opinion of linux - or at least dedicate yourself to using it for one month before you make such a bold claim. You're wrong.

 

[Saint]

Is linux better than windows in programming?

I am VB user, I try to migrate to Visual.NET , microsoft claims that .NET is better than any other programming tool.

 

[Nicool003]

Windows and Linux both have theur good points but anyways isn't it hard to compare the two when they are good in different areas for different things?

 

[Raavin]

Must admit, although I'm embarassed to say, I've never had anything but problems with linux. Tried Redhat and Mandrake with errors up the butt. Stable? I don't think so. I've had problems with crashes much more than I ever have with Window$. I love the whole open source concept, I gone from pirating and cracking to pure freeware and open source, but I think I've just gotten used to the sensitive side of MS OSs. Crashes are so rare I would say it barely ever happens. Try turning your computer on and off a few times with linux while it's booting or closing. It doesn't like it. Not in my experience anyway. I'm a pretty frenetic user so I'm constantly loading, deleting, opening multiple documents, killing tasks mid stream, low level debugging or all of them at once. My computer loves me and show me as much respect as I show it. People at work yell and scream at their boxes and look at me weird when I tell them to think nice thoughts about their PCs. It works. If you want apps and ease of use, I haven't found a better OS that MS ones.



Raavin

 

[Galatea]

Well, I think it depends. There are a lot of variances between each distro. RedHat and Mandrake are not my choice primarily because of the package management (RPM.) There are a lot of problems with dependencies and getting things to run properly That's the primary reason I switched to Debian. It's not as easy to install as the two mentioned above but installing programs is as simple as typing a command at a terminal.

Also, how well linux runs for any specific person depends a lot on their hardware. I have pretty generic hardware so there haven't been too many problems and I can see how others would not want to bother, especially coming from a Windows environment. There were nights I would stay up cursing at my machine (and linux) because things wouldn't work the way I wanted to and due to my overall confusion. But the fact is, if you stick with it long enough, you start to understand the problems you may encounter and how to solve them. Now, whenever I use Windows, I have to download Cygwin <http://www.cygwin.com/> so that I can have my command line to move things around, delete them etc.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks :) You get out what you put in as far as linux is concerned.

 

[STAii]

Originally posted by Saint
Is linux better than windows in programming?

I am VB user, I try to migrate to Visual.NET , microsoft claims that .NET is better than any other programming tool.

I doubt that MS will make programs that run under Linux.
Even if, VB programs are made only to run under Windows (as far as i remember).
Normally C programmer (and maybe assembly programers) use Linux, cause those languages can be adjusted for any OS.

 

[damgo]

I used Linux (first Redhat, then Debian) pretty much exclusively until about a year ago, when I switched over to Win2000 for a few reasons:
1) Win2k was actually stable, and didn't require daily rebooting
2) I was sick to death of Netscape crashing every 10 minutes, and being slow as hell besides (this was before Mozilla)
3) I had more or less finished my project of figuring out how OSs/libraries/servers/etc worked, and no longer cared to mess with setting things up myself.

IMHO if you want to be a power user, learn what your computer is actually doing, or program, Linux is wonderful. If you just don't care, and just want to be able to download/run random apps without learning a new config file format each time... Windows is easier.

 

[Saint]

may be we cantry lindows too,
a hybrid!

 

[MacTech]

Originally posted by Futurist
I started to use linux mandrake and redhat, both i installed on my HDD.

The KDE has a better look than windows.

that is great :) KDE is the bomb, imo. second to aqua. suse linux personaly is what i recommend but all in all, they are all the same. and don't ever use gnome.. imo.. :)

 

[Galatea]

Originally posted by MacTech
that is great :) KDE is the bomb, imo. second to aqua. suse linux personaly is what i recommend but all in all, they are all the same. and don't ever use gnome.. imo.. :)

Gnome is fantastic. Infinitely tweakable if you have the time and patience (coming from a KDE->Gnome convert.)

 

[RuroumiKenshin]

Originally posted by Futurist
I started to use linux mandrake and redhat, both i installed on my HDD.

The KDE has a better look than windows.

[GASP] Are you really Futurist? The one from pf 2.0 that I've heard SO much about??! if so, that is SO cool!

 

[MacTech]

Originally posted by Galatea
Gnome is fantastic. Infinitely tweakable if you have the time and patience (coming from a KDE->Gnome convert.)

well.. ok.. granted, but i have always used KDE more.. so idk.. :P :)

both are pretty much the same.. lol.

 

[J-Man]

Galatea said:
But the fact is, if you stick with it long enough, you start to understand the problems you may encounter and how to solve them.

I remember thinking the same thing about DOS... isn't this statement true of everything, even Windows?

 

[MacTech]

Originally posted by J-Man
I remember thinking the same thing about DOS... isn't this statement true of everything, even Windows?

no not windows, the error packs i mean service packs cause problem in itself.. cough.

 

[Galatea]

Originally posted by J-Man
I remember thinking the same thing about DOS... isn't this statement true of everything, even Windows?

Yes, but the problems I had on Window's were so well hidden I never really figured out how to fix anything. The solution in linux is rarely to "reboot" as it is with a large percentage of Window's problems. I thought I knew a decent amount about computers before I used linux - then I started using it and realized I didn't know a damn thing about how my computer worked. It's been a very sobering experience

 

[Saint]

Mandrake 9.1 and Redhat 9.0 are coming to market soon,
you can pre-order it thru internet.

 

[Saint]

Originally posted by MajinVegeta
[GASP] Are you really Futurist? The one from pf 2.0 that I've heard SO much about??! if so, that is SO cool!

He get banned once more time,
you can see his posts in http://www.linuxquestions.org/index.php

 

[J-Man]

Originally posted by Galatea
Yes, but the problems I had on Window's were so well hidden I never really figured out how to fix anything. The solution in linux is rarely to "reboot" as it is with a large percentage of Window's problems.

Touche. I'd add more, but I have to reboot.

It's been a very sobering experience

In that case, may I buy you a virtual drink?

 

[Galatea]

Originally posted by J-Man
Touche. I'd add more, but I have to reboot.


In that case, may I buy you a virtual drink?

Smartass

 

[J-Man]

Originally posted by Galatea
Smartass

Sorry, I didn't mean to piss you off.

-------------------
OK, back to the topic at hand then...

What applications for linux are best or your favorite? Also where did you find them; do you have to compile them yourself; how large are they and is the source code available?

 

[Galatea]

Originally posted by J-Man
Sorry, I didn't mean to piss you off.

You didn't that's why I put the funny looking face.. perhaps I should have put this one

-------------------
OK, back to the topic at hand then...

What applications for linux are best or your favorite? Also where did you find them; do you have to compile them yourself; how large are they and is the source code available?

Well, I'll go first I guess, in order of typical programs people use:

Email: Evolution
Browser: Galeon (because it has the Google search bar) which runs on the Mozilla engine
mp3 Player: xmms
Terminal: Gnome Terminal
HTML Editor: Bluefish
Graphics: The GIMP
Office: OpenOffice.org
Text editor(s): vi and gEdit
CD burning: eroaster, cdrecord
Palm Syncing software: gPilotd (part of Evolution)
Digital Camera: gphoto2


As far as where I found them, whether I had to compile them myself and is the source code available, answers are in order:

1. I use Debian and don't really have to search the web to find programs. There is a program called apt which searches an online software repository for Debian. For instance, at a terminal you can type "apt-cache search html editor" and it will give you a whole bunch of results. Then you just type "apt-get install <program>." Alternately, browsing sourceforge.net will usually find some interesting things as well as Googling. Google is actually invaluable because a lot of times the programs have websites with screenshots/instructions/etc.

2. No I didn't have to compile them myself. Debian packages are compiled using apt (see above.)

3. I believe the source code is available for all of the programs I have. Not sure if they're all covered under the GPL license. Some might be covered under the BSD license which is a little different.

Umm.. I think that covers it.

 

[damgo]

^^^ Love your sig.

Ugh.. GNOME... last time I used it, it was the one thing that would reliably freeze my kernel at least once a day. That was back in the days of 1.0 though. ;)

I still use vim (even on Windows), and I used to be a big WindowMaker fan, before Enlightenment's sexy graphics stole me away. Do any of you know if WM is still around?

 

[J-Man]

Galatea said:
You didn't that's why I put the funny looking face.. perhaps I should have put this one

That one looks much happier. The other one looks mad or grumpy to me. And I almost resolved not to joke around and flirt with you anymore...

Thanks for the info Gal & damgo, I'm starting a list. I have a few linux versions on cd that I keep thinking I'll try out one-o-these days.

I was somewhat surprised vi was on your list. I think it's still great when I use unix. Has it been updated lately for linux so you don't have to remember all the keystroke commands?

Oh, and are there drivers typically included in linux versions to read other file systems? I'm thinking FAT32 and NTFS. I've only actually installed linux once for a test server and never really played with it.

 

[Galatea]

Originally posted by J-Man
Thanks for the info Gal & damgo, I'm starting a list. I have a few linux versions on cd that I keep thinking I'll try out one-o-these days.

Which distros? I (and others) could probably assist you with distro-specific quirks/capabilities.

I was somewhat surprised vi was on your list. I think it's still great when I use unix. Has it been updated lately for linux so you don't have to remember all the keystroke commands?

Well, I believe the actual version is vim - vi improved that is. You still have to use a lot of keystrokes for certain things i.e. pressing i to insert text, pressing esc to enter commands, using :q to quit, :w to save etc. It's useful for editing config files though - others prefer nano/pico/emacs/blah blah but vi(m) is the best simply because it's on pretty much every *nix system. Knowing it certainly saved my ass when installing OpenBSD for the first time. I would have been screwed if I had to use 'ed' (their default editor.)

Oh, and are there drivers typically included in linux versions to read other file systems? I'm thinking FAT32 and NTFS. I've only actually installed linux once for a test server and never really played with it.

Well, as of right now, the read/write capabilities are only safe on FAT32. You can read NTFS partition but writing is extremely dangerous and you run the risk of ruining that partition should you attempt to write to it. I would recommend making a fairly sizeable FAT32 partition on your drive if you're planning to dual boot and your primary Windows partition is NTFS. You could also use symbolic links to have certain directories in the FAT32 partition 'virtually' in your /home partition (or directory if you choose to not put it on a separate directory which is highly recommended) should you want to have easier access to them. Keep us updated on what you plan to do!

 

[damgo]

^^^ The NTFS drivers still isn't stable!? That's the exact same situation they were in like four years ago. Man.

 

[Saint]

I installed Lindows 3.0 on my old Quantum 2GB HDD,
it just looks like Linux,
nothing special.

To install software, you must register with Lindows.com, to use the Click-N-run.

 

[Galatea]

Originally posted by Saint
I installed Lindows 3.0 on my old Quantum 2GB HDD,
it just looks like Linux,
nothing special.

To install software, you must register with Lindows.com, to use the Click-N-run.

<rant>I don't personally care for Lindows.. Everything has to be run as root it seems, and as far as the "click-n-run", I don't even know what that's about. I think Lindows might be good for people who are scared of Linux by itself, since they've tried to dumb down the process a lot, but it isn't necessarily good for Linux (as in, the promotion of Linux as a viable competitor for Windows) because it tries too much to be like Windows without actually addressing what's great about Linux. The *great* things about Linux come from the freedom it provides which I don't think Lindows actually allows.</rant>

Anyhow - damgo, yes apparently NTFS write support is still experimental. I don't really know why though. Perhaps some googling will come up with some information.

 

[J-Man]

Galatea said:
Which distros? I (and others) could probably assist you with distro-specific quirks/capabilities.

Hmmm... I could only find one CD in the 2 minutes I looked. It's TurboLinux 4.0 (probably 3 or 4 years old). I know I have another version or two, but I can't find them at the moment, and I don't recall what kind/version they were. I think I had an old copy of Suse somewhere...

...but vi(m) is the best simply because it's on pretty much every *nix system...

that's pretty much why I still use it too.

Well, as of right now, the read/write capabilities are only safe on FAT32. You can read NTFS partition but writing is extremely dangerous and you run the risk of ruining that partition should you attempt to write to it. I would recommend making a fairly sizeable FAT32 partition on your drive if you're planning to dual boot and your primary Windows partition is NTFS. You could also use symbolic links to have certain directories in the FAT32 partition 'virtually' in your /home partition (or directory if you choose to not put it on a separate directory which is highly recommended) should you want to have easier access to them. Keep us updated on what you plan to do!

I don't use NTFS at home, no reason to IMHO. But the capability to do so, if I wished, would be nice.
I'm just as surprised as Damgo that NTFS for linux is unreliable. It should be fairly easy to make a protocol interpreter. I guess the addage "if you want something done right, do it yourself" might apply.
It might be awhile before I actually try out linux on my machine... It's getting warmer outside.

One more thing about filesystems... Is there >good< UDF capabilities? I use CD-R and CD-RW more and more it seems.

 

[Frac]

Originally posted by Greg Bernhardt
I use Mandrake sometimes. If your not a programmer there isn't any reason to use Linux. Stick with Mac or Windows if your an app user.

I'm an occasional Linux user. However, I wonder if Linux really is for everyone. I've seen in other forums that Greg is a solemn gamer, is it possible to have a thriving gaming life outside of windows or a mac?

 

[Saint]

So far I run linux, i never get hanged like what happened in windows,

even windows 2000 can hang sometimes--- system busy etc...

in linux, something goes wrong, a KILL operation will be done ! And the OS is stable, no need to reboot.

 

[Galatea]

Originally posted by Frac
I'm an occasional Linux user. However, I wonder if Linux really is for everyone. I've seen in other forums that Greg is a solemn gamer, is it possible to have a thriving gaming life outside of windows or a mac?

Isn't "gaming life" kind of an oxymoron?

I'm not a gamer, but some members of my LUG are and they're always playing Unreal Tournament - I don't know about other games on linux (besides things like tetris..) I suppose someone who cared about stuff like that could research it.

Originally posted by J-Man
I'm just as surprised as Damgo that NTFS for linux is unreliable. It should be fairly easy to make a protocol interpreter. I guess the addage "if you want something done right, do it yourself" might apply.
It might be awhile before I actually try out linux on my machine... It's getting warmer outside.

It also may be the Microsoft is making some kind of funky changes. I know that there are problems with Samba because Microsoft keeps screwing around with protocols. The Samba people do a good job of keeping up but some of it isn't the linux community's fault. Apparently there are several changes between the versions of NTFS used on NT, 2000 and XP. With Microsoft keeping stuff closed source I can only imagine they have to reverse engineer everything. For more information: http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/info/ntfs.html

Regarding your question about UDF capabilities, you'll have to be more specific. From what I've read UDF is basically some kind of replacement for ISO9660 but I don't know much else about it so I couldn't elaborate on the capabilities in linux.

 

[Raavin]

The only real reason I have any interest at all in linux is the Open Source/Freeware aspect of it. If I was going to use it seriously I would be trying to steer away from things like KDE. I'm sure that at some stage in the future, when the time is right, you will have to buy it. I don't think Gnome will ever go that way.

Raavin