UPS that accepts multiple power sources

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design and functionality of Uninterruptible Power Supplies (UPS) that can accept multiple power sources and provide stable power without downtime. Participants explore the capabilities of different UPS types, particularly focusing on Online / Double Conversion UPS systems, and their ability to manage internal and external battery sources.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a UPS that can provide stable power and switch between multiple power sources, both AC and DC, without downtime.
  • Another participant explains that larger UPS systems (>1KVA) can operate continuously from the inverter, which is powered by the battery and incoming power, thus eliminating switching delays during outages.
  • There is a question regarding whether Online / Double Conversion UPS systems can handle multiple power sources and if they can alternate between internal and external batteries during outages.
  • Some participants clarify that while these UPS systems do not inherently handle multiple power sources, they can switch battery charging between different incoming power sources without interrupting the load.
  • A participant expresses concern about the limited duration of standard UPS batteries and inquires about the possibility of using an external battery array to extend backup time during outages.
  • Another participant notes that they are not aware of UPS systems that can alternate between internal and external batteries but mentions that external battery packs are available from some suppliers for larger installations.
  • Safety considerations for large battery installations are discussed, including the need for spill containment, ventilation, and adherence to electrical codes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the functionality of Online / Double Conversion UPS systems in providing continuous power without switching delays. However, there is no consensus on the availability of UPS systems that can alternate between internal and external batteries, with some uncertainty expressed regarding the capabilities of existing products.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific safety requirements and hazards associated with large battery bank installations, highlighting the importance of proper setup and maintenance. There are unresolved questions regarding the exact capabilities of different UPS models and configurations.

Trainee Engineering
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Hi,

I'm looking for a device that is able to provide stable power and alternate between power sources. UPS, no matter how good they are, they usually still have several millisecond downtime during outage, switching from power grid to backup battery. I want a device that can accept power from multiple sources, both AC and DC, store to some powerbank first (plugable modular powerbank would be nice) before distributing to house appliances.
The tool may look like this
tool_zpsjjdmoowe.png


This way, it can reliably provide electricity with stable voltage with no down time at all.

Thanks
 
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Larger Uninterruptible Power Supplies (>1KVA) are often designed so that the Inverter always supplies your load, and the incoming power both charges the batteries and powers the Inverter. When the incoming power fails there is no switching delay because the Inverter is already operating.

Incoming Power --> Battery --> Inverter --> Load

For a decent overview see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply
 
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Tom.G said:
Larger Uninterruptible Power Supplies (>1KVA) are often designed so that the Inverter always supplies your load, and the incoming power both charges the batteries and powers the Inverter. When the incoming power fails there is no switching delay because the Inverter is already operating.

Incoming Power --> Battery --> Inverter --> Load

For a decent overview see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply

I see. just to make sure, on that wikipedia article, what I'm looking for is the Online / Double Conversion UPS? and they can handle multiple power sources? so, I'll have an array of battery of 200 kWH for spare in case of outage.
thanks
 
Trainee Engineering said:
what I'm looking for is the Online / Double Conversion UPS?
Yes.
It's not that they handle multiple power sources. They are always supplying your load from the Inverter, which is supplied by the Battery, which is kept charged by the Incoming Power. If you have multiple options of incoming power you could switch the battery charging between them as needed, without interrupting your load.
 
Tom.G said:
Yes.
It's not that they handle multiple power sources. They are always supplying your load from the Inverter, which is supplied by the Battery, which is kept charged by the Incoming Power. If you have multiple options of incoming power you could switch the battery charging between them as needed, without interrupting your load.

so, there's a UPS that can alternate between internal battery and external batteries? because I'm sure the normal batteries inside UPS will only last like 30 mins tops, I have an array of batteries that can last days, so I want to alternate between main power grid and said array of batteries during outage.
thanks
 
Trainee Engineering said:
so, there's a UPS that can alternate between internal battery and external batteries?
Not that I'm aware of. Just connect all the batteries together and keep them charged.

P.S. I don't recall the details, but I've seen external battery packs advertised by at least one of the major UPS suppliers. Very large UPS installations (>10KWH) use only a separate bank, often located in a dedicated room to keep spills and corrosive fumes away from the electronics (and people.) In fact in the USA there are very specific safety requirements for battery bank installations. You must:
  • Contain spills (don't count on concrete floors to contain Lead-Acid batteries, the acid dissolves concrete, and the reinforcing steel bars in the concrete)
  • Supply adequate ventilation (Lead-Acid batteries emit explosive Hydrogen gas, especially during charging)
  • Meet Electrrical codes for Disconnect Switch, current limiting, etc. (A large battery bank easily supplies several thousand Amps into a short circuit)
Other battery chemistries have their own specific hazards.

Take care and have fun! Let us know how it all turns out.
 

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