News US Vice President Cheney Accidentally Shoots Fellow Hunter

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Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot and injured Harry Whittington during a quail hunting trip in Texas, with Whittington reported to be recovering well. The incident raised concerns about Cheney's recklessness and potential legal liability for the shooting, as some believe he failed to ensure the safety of those around him before firing. Discussions also highlighted the responsibilities of hunting groups to communicate and maintain awareness of each other's locations to prevent accidents. The role of Secret Service agents present during the incident was questioned, as they are expected to monitor safety in such situations. Overall, the incident sparked debates about gun safety and the implications of careless firearm use.
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WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot and injured a man during a weekend quail hunting trip in Texas, his spokeswoman said Sunday.

Harry Whittington, 78, was "alert and doing fine" after Cheney sprayed Whittington with shotgun pellets on Saturday at the Armstrong Ranch in south Texas, said property owner Katharine Armstrong.
:rolleyes: Maybe he thought he saw a 'Democrat' or 'Liberal'!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060212/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_hunting_accident

Gun Control thread - https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=86932
 
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If the guy was far enough away to take the shot without serious injury, then it seems to me that Cheney was being wreckless and shooting too low. I believe that in some states he could be liable for criminal charges. I know that this was the law in Ca. back when I took the NRA gun course, back in the 70's: If you shoot someone, you are almost always at fault. "Whoops" doesn't count; you could still be hit with wreckless endagerment, or some similar charge.

And yes, I am NRA and proud of it. :biggrin:
 
Cheney was just using his typical spray and pray method.
 
Well at least Cheney was out of the White House where he has caused much more serious damage.
 
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As a gun owner and avid hunter and target shooter, I am always dismayed when somebody gets injured or killed by another person's carelessnes. If I were Cheney, I would take this incident as a sign that I had no right to be handling firearms around other people. The man could easily have been blinded.
 
You mean he pulled the trigger without assessing the situation and there were unexpected civilian casualties?

And it wasn't at all Cheney's fault? No! It was God's will: "And by God, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."

:smile:
 
One time while duck hunting, my dad took a shot and at precisely the same time he stepped on a six foot tall tule branch. Just as I heard the shot the branch slapped me very hard across the face. Not knowing what had happend, I reached up in a panic thinking that my face would be gone! It scared the heck out of me. :smile:

Sorry, OT but I hadn't thought of this in a long time.
 
At the rifle range, my dad was teaching me how to shoot a .243 he had just bought for me and had scoped, etc. So he loaded up, aimed downrange, and fired. When he turned around, his face was spurting blood. I thought he'd been shot, but he was laughing - which just made it even more unnerving. What'd happened was he forgot that the rifle was sighted in for me and he was a lot taller. It's called being scope-bit. Needless to say, that pretty much ended that lesson for that day. As we were walking out, some of the managers (a lot of them former sheriffs, etc) walked up to him and chuckled. "Don't worry, that happens to a lot of the guy's who come in here's girlfriends." Good times.
 
Someone probably asked Cheney about the Plame leak as he was sqeezing the trigger. I'm sure they'll find a way to blame it on Clinton so they won't lose NRA support.
 
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  • #10
Ivan Seeking said:
If the guy was far enough away to take the shot without serious injury, then it seems to me that Cheney was being wreckless and shooting too low. I believe that in some states he could be liable for criminal charges. I know that this was the law in Ca. back when I took the NRA gun course, back in the 70's: If you shoot someone, you are almost always at fault. "Whoops" doesn't count; you could still be hit with wreckless endagerment, or some similar charge.

I suspect the exact opposite happened. Last time i went out hunting, i was sprayed with some pellets from a guy who was 100 yards away. The bird was pretty high up and the guy hit the bird and then pretty much hit me with a little 2 for 1 deal. I've never hunted quail though, how low do those things go? Pretty interesting experience to be hit like that. It sounds exactly like a shower.
 
  • #11
Pengwuino said:
I've never hunted quail though, how low do those things go?
They usually start on the ground, and usually one's dog (bird dog) flushes them out, and they fly generally low, but sometimes up to maybe 20 feet or so. They are similar to partridges.

http://huntingsociety.org/quailhunting.html

The best-known species in the United States is the northern bobwhite, named from the loud call of the male. A popular game bird, it was originally resident east of the Rockies and north to southern Ontario and New England; it has been successfully introduced in parts of western North America, the West Indies, and New Zealand. It is 8.5 to 10.5 in long, with a slight crest. Males of the northern populations are reddish brown above and white, barred with black, on the belly. The throat and a line above the eye are white; a broad black line extends from the eye backward and around the throat. This white area is buff in the otherwise similar females. In subspecies from the southwestern United States and parts of Mexico, the face, throat, and variable amounts of the rest of the under parts are black.
on huntingsociety.org from Encyclopedia Brittanica.

Try also Quail Unlimited - http://www.qu.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quail
 
  • #12
I'm from Austin and I just found out this guy's someone my family knows. He used to go walking by our house (w. a cane). Nice guy though. I'm suprised he is in as good of shape as he is.
 
  • #13
It doesn't take a hunter to be concerned about the similarity between Cheney's reckless use of a shotgun and his potential responsibility for launching thousands of conventional or thermonuclear bombs.
 
  • #14
Loren Booda said:
It doesn't take a hunter to be concerned about the similarity between Cheney's reckless use of a shotgun and his potential responsibility for launching thousands of conventional or thermonuclear bombs.

It takes a rather special person to be concerned about that indeed.
 
  • #15
So, what happens when the VP shoots a lawyer? What I keep wondering is why none of the Secret Service agents who must be swarming all over the place noticed this guy was wandering in the wrong place at the wrong time and shouted out a warning. It's not like he was out with nobody but a bunch of beer-guzzling buddies, he's out with people trained to use all sorts of weapons and paid to notice their surroundings.
 
  • #16
They really should have been standing side by side so that sort of thing would not happen.
 
  • #17
Thankfully Mr. Whittington is okay, and I hope a fast recovery for him. Truly, this is just going to provide material for comedians.
 
  • #18
Moonbear said:
So, what happens when the VP shoots a lawyer? What I keep wondering is why none of the Secret Service agents who must be swarming all over the place noticed this guy was wandering in the wrong place at the wrong time and shouted out a warning. It's not like he was out with nobody but a bunch of beer-guzzling buddies, he's out with people trained to use all sorts of weapons and paid to notice their surroundings.

For one, the VP doesn't necessarily have SS all over the place 24/7... and two...

Whittington shot a bird and went to look for it in the tall grass, while Cheney and the third hunter walked to another spot and discovered a second covey.

Whittington "came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn't signal them or indicate to them or announce himself," Armstrong said.

"The vice president didn't see him," she continued. "The covey flushed and the vice president picked out a bird and was following it and shot. And by god, Harry was in the line of fire and got peppered pretty good."

I'm surprised no one picked up on this funny little nugget:

"Fortunately, the vice president has got a lot of medical people around him and so they were right there and probably more cautious than we would have been," she said. "The vice president has got an ambulance on call, so the ambulance came."
 
  • #19
...and three, you don't start shooting until the guy getting his bird comes back to the group.

and four, "SS all over the place 24/7", yes, he does.

Regan had SS with him when he would go chop down tree's on his ranch.
 
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  • #20
This guy should be honored. He is what, the second person to be shot by a vice president? And if so, the first one to live to tell about it.
 
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  • #21
Pengwuino said:
For one, the VP doesn't necessarily have SS all over the place 24/7
I would think he would, and certainly if he's out in public in a place where people are carrying firearms.

Gotta go with Cyrus on this one...it seems he ignored a pretty basic safety rule, make sure you know where everyone in your group is before you fire!
 
  • #22
Pengwuino said:
I suspect the exact opposite happened. Last time i went out hunting, i was sprayed with some pellets from a guy who was 100 yards away. The bird was pretty high up and the guy hit the bird and then pretty much hit me with a little 2 for 1 deal. I've never hunted quail though, how low do those things go? Pretty interesting experience to be hit like that. It sounds exactly like a shower.

What was Newton's law again?

I mean, calculating for air resistance, and gravity, those pelets were probably on their way back to earth.
 
  • #23
ComputerGeek said:
What was Newton's law again?

I mean, calculating for air resistance, and gravity, those pelets were probably on their way back to earth.

Well in Cheney's case and in mine, the pellets were obviously heading down to earth. I was merely pointing out that the situation could have happened in either of 2 situations. 1) Cheney fired high and the guy was very far out and the pellets just landed where he was. This is what happened to me. 2) Cheney fired low and the guy was nearby and he got hit.

Now the first one obviously couldn't have been the case come to think of it because it's somewhat unlikely the pellets were in such a close grouping upon arrival to hit him, what, 3 times above the waist all on the right side? Plus as someone pointed out, those birds fly low to the ground so them being 80 yards up in the air wasn't extraordinarily likely. They definitely should have waited for everyone to regroup before shooting off again. On second thought... why not have a dog? Searching aroudn for your kill in grass is the most frusterating thing i can think of when it comes to hunting! If i did it more, id have an ATV that i would jump on and zoom out there to get it :smile: :smile: :smile:

@Moonbear

I don't understand why the secret service is such a big deal if they were even around in any noteworthy numbers. You're looking after 3 guys, one goes off to pick up something, a bunch of birds fly up... what are they suppose to do? Run up and tackle him down so he doesn't shoot?

I also don't understand what happened really. What does the article mean by "he came up behind Cheney". Did cheney do a 180 and fire at birds behind him? I was taught if you have 3 people, everyone picks a 120 degree sector to shoot at so something like this doesn't happen.
 
  • #24
Pengwuino said:
I don't understand why the secret service is such a big deal if they were even around in any noteworthy numbers. You're looking after 3 guys, one goes off to pick up something, a bunch of birds fly up... what are they suppose to do? Run up and tackle him down so he doesn't shoot?
Not a big deal, but you'd think there'd be several around who might have been paying attention to what was going on who could have shouted "Look out!" or something like that. Who knows, maybe they all decided to hide in the bullet-proof vehicle while Cheney had a loaded weapon. :biggrin:

I also don't understand what happened really. What does the article mean by "he came up behind Cheney". Did cheney do a 180 and fire at birds behind him? I was taught if you have 3 people, everyone picks a 120 degree sector to shoot at so something like this doesn't happen.
That's what's odd...the way the article tells the story, it sounds like the guy was close behind Cheney and Cheney did a 180 and fired right into him or something. The details will probably get clarified on that. But, no matter how you look at it, Cheney must have been pretty reckless. Even if he was shooting high and the other guy was pretty far out, you don't aim in the direction where you know someone else is, precisely because what goes up must come down! And if the guy really was coming up behind Cheney, and Cheney did a 180, well, it seems Cheney is the sort of hunter that was the reason my dad gave up hunting...too many idiots firing at anything that moves without looking who else is around first.
 
  • #25
Yah, that's what you want to avoid, people who will do 180's and just fire at whatevers moving...
 
  • #26
That is simply not true in this case though. When your shooting at a small, fast moving target like that, you don't have time to look before you shoot. Thats the whole reason you stand close. When that bird pops out of the tall grass, it takes off in a hurry and flys low. It does not fly straight either. It might zip and cut right across you. So you will naturally follow the bird with your gun and might be turned 180 around before you even realize it. The error was not waiting until he united with the group. It was not like he was shooting a slow moving deer. The guy obviously knows how to shoot, he's been doing it all his life. So no more comments about shooting if you don't know what's going on. (Pengwuino)
 
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  • #27
Quiet you! :-p

Aren't quail slow and fat though?? If he's so experienced, why did he spin around like that and fire and hit someone :approve:
 
  • #28
No, there fast and small. He did not 'spin like that', pay attention. The bird darted across. So he was following the bird fly from him ---> to the direction of the other guy. So when he followed the bird, the other guy became in the way.
 
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  • #29
Pengwuino said:
I suspect the exact opposite happened. Last time i went out hunting, i was sprayed with some pellets from a guy who was 100 yards away.

Well, I have been rained on many times which is probably what happened to you. That never hurts anyone - ie when shotguns are used.
 
  • #30
McBride did not comment about why the vice president's office did not tell reporters about the accident until the next day. She referred the question to Armstrong, who could not be reached again Sunday evening.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060213/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_hunting_accident"
 
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  • #31
It doesn't surprise me they held off on any formal announcement of the incident...first get the story straight, then make sure the guy he shot is doing okay so they can put that in the press release. 24 hours isn't really that long to get an official statement on something.
 
  • #32
Actually this was a fortunate incident compared to three years ago when Cheney/Bush shot the entire country in the foot. One more screw up like Iraq and we won't have a leg to stand on.:smile: :wink:
 
  • #33
Seems to me like both of them are at fault. The guy that got shot should have never NEVER been ahead of the shooters, and Cheney should have been sure of his shot and not blindly shooting like some sort of idiot. Any of this stuff is taught in an BASIC hunter education course, not to mention just common sense. You never go ahead unless you are sure you are clear.
 
  • #34
Loren Booda said:
It doesn't take a hunter to be concerned about the similarity between Cheney's reckless use of a shotgun and his potential responsibility for launching thousands of conventional or thermonuclear bombs.
Oh my god, you're right! Quick, run for the bunkers before the nuclear holocaust is started!
Personally I think he was ordered to kill old people. Think about it, they want to screw up medicaid, social security, retirment pay from big corporations, etc. However, not enough are dying to please them, so Cheney was ordered to shoot the old rancher. So remeber this, if you're an old person and get an invitation to go hunting with the VP, hide as quickly as you can. Your very life might be at stake.
 
  • #35
Archon,

You mean he pulled the trigger without assessing the situation and there were unexpected civilian casualties?

Kinda like the Iraq war huh? Funny the victim was so quick to exonerate Cheney and claim fault. (Think he was scared it would be something else he would be shot with besides birdshot if he didn't?)
 
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  • #36
Amp1 said:
Funny the victim was so quick to exonerate Cheney and claim fault. (Think he was scared it would be something besides birdshot if he didn't?)
Damn right he was scared! Cheney already tried to murder him once, you just know that he wouldn't hesitate to kill him for something so apparently simple as a hunting accident. I mean, we all know how pure evil this administration is, I wouldn't put anything past them! I bet Cheney was sitting next to his hospital bed, whispering into his ear of all the terrible things that would happen to his family if he blamed the VP.
 
  • #37
Yep, I wonder sometimes why former Sec. of State Powell didn't clarify his statements that he attempted to reason with the Prez about invading Iraq. And why he offered what he must have obviously knew was flawed data of WMDs in Iraq. (He was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the main commander behind 'OP Desert Storm, I can't fathom how he could not have been aware of the state of Saddam's WMDs when DS was finished. In fact, I think he said publicly the they had smashed Saddam's military and destroyed his WMD capability.)

Sorry I've gone OT.
 
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  • #38
Dawguard said:
Damn right he was scared!
Calm down minion of the Bush cult.

McClellan grilled on Cheney news

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan is in the thick of a more-interesting-than-usual briefing right now. Reporters have repeatedly asked about Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental shooting of a hunting companion, with a major focus on the timeline of events.

As Fishbowl DC and others note, there's a substantial gap in the time between the shooting -- Saturday afternoon -- and the news of the shooting -- Sunday. Also, there's the fact that the news came from the ranch's owner, Katharine Armstrong, instead of from the White House or the vice president's office.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/02/mcclellan_grill.html

As stated earlier, this accident should be viewed only as material for comedians. However, as usual it won’t be because Bush, et al can’t come clean right up front with one damn thing.

...official confirmation of the shooting came about only after a local reporter in Corpus Christi, Texas, received a tip from the owner of the property where the shooting occurred and called Vice President Cheney's office for confirmation.

The confirmation was made but it is not known for certain that Cheney's office, the White House, or anyone else intended to announce the shooting if the reporter, Jaime Powell of the Corpus Christ Caller-Times, had not received word from the ranch owner.
How many believe the announcement would have been initiated by the White House?
 
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  • #39
Nope, they wouldn't have uttered a peep. the ranch owner probably reasoned that it was safer to get the incident made public rather than some unforseen accident decimate her family, IMO. the admin will probably clamp a classified lid on the rest heading off any further release of details, like for instance what the sort of conversation was going on at the time and what the veeps state of mind was in the moments prior to the accident.
 
  • #40
You should know that the husband of the ranch owner was a director of Halliburton when Cheney was hired as CEO. When she says things to minimize the idiocy of the shooting like "I got peppered good once" or similar things, remember the source.
 
  • #41
SOS2008 said:
Calm down minion of the Bush cult.
Minion? Of the Bush cult? I hate the Bush cult: along with pretty much every other politician out there. I was just mocking the extremists who are ready to believe anything bad about the right wing. I mean, do you really think that Bush would have killed the hunter just to prevent the story from getting out? Come on, quit the conspiracy theories, it was a simple accident.
 
  • #42
I'm sorry, but what kind of MORON accidentally shoots someone? I don't understand how that can even happen. Yet it happens.

EDIT: To set it clear, I'm not against Dick Cheney, just against his firearm safety incompetence.
 
  • #43
Dawguard said:
Minion? Of the Bush cult? I hate the Bush cult: along with pretty much every other politician out there. I was just mocking the extremists who are ready to believe anything bad about the right wing. I mean, do you really think that Bush would have killed the hunter just to prevent the story from getting out? Come on, quit the conspiracy theories, it was a simple accident.
Fair enough about conspiracy theories. At the same time, the Bush administration has done nothing to create a warm and fuzzy feeling of trust, so suspicion will abound.
 
  • #44
moose said:
I'm sorry, but what kind of MORON accidentally shoots someone? I don't understand how that can even happen. Yet it happens.

EDIT: To set it clear, I'm not against Dick Cheney, just against his firearm safety incompetence.

Firearms accidents happen very frequently. This incident is the first time that I have seen Cheney look almost human.:wink:
 
  • #45
edward said:
Firearms accidents happen very frequently. This incident is the first time that I have seen Cheney look almost human.:wink:


Firearm accidents usually happen by idiots. The reason why it seems impossible to shoot someone accidentally is because... why would you be aiming somewhere even close to a human?
 
  • #46
He didn't have the right permits either:

The Parks and Wildlife Department said Cheney and Whittington will be given warning citations for violating game law by not having an upland game bird stamp, a requirement that went into effect in September. Cheney had a $125 nonresident hunting license, the vice president's office said Monday night in a statement, and has sent a $7 check to cover the cost of the stamp.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060214/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cheney_hunting_accident_38;_ylt=Ak2g2PxKzg1BbbwZKy8rxdJqP0AC;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl"

I think this borders on absurd...
 
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  • #47
Someone should lock this thread already. What a bunch of nonsense seriously. Stop posting in here people, this is the political forum. This thread has turned into let's tell jokes and give our opinions on shooting. It was ok for the first 2 pages, now its just beating a dead horse.
 
  • #48
edward said:
Firearms accidents happen very frequently. This incident is the first time that I have seen Cheney look almost human.:wink:
Firearms "accidents" are almost always due to the failure of the firearms users failure to use due diligence. I have been hunting for over 40 years and have not yet shot another person. If you have a different standard of excellence, I pity the people who accompany you on a hunt.
 
  • #49
Ivan Seeking said:
you could still be hit with wreckless endagerment, or some similar charge.

:smile: Make that reckless negligence!

I think wreckless negligence is a driving offense. :biggrin:
 
  • #50
Dear God Lock The Thread Ivan!


:)
 

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