Uses of Philosophy - Is it the most useless subject on Earth?

[quddusaliquddus]

Penny 4 your thoughts.

 

[honestrosewater]

My advice? Duck! :rofl:

 

[quddusaliquddus]

lol...

 

[cassiopeiae]

Actually, I think it is the most useful. If you think in terms of physics and use Einstein as an example, without philosophy would he have ever come up with the Theory of Relativity? Most groundbreaking advances in science start with philosophy...IMO. The theoretical physicist is also a philosopher...

My 2 cents... :)

 

[Dissident Dan]

Without philosophy, would we have the USA? Ethics? Society would certainly break down without ethics. Would we have a good laugh at the results of Socrates's questions?

 

[quartodeciman]

The value of being useless is the possibility of incorruptibility. Useful subjects get invaded and commandeered by commercial and power interests and risk being taken downhill.

Actually, philosophy has some limited uses: the basis for some writing and drama. Professors of the subject get employment and even advancement at times.

I knew someone who, while working on a doctorate in the subject of Philosophy (yes, it was a Ph. D.) at UC Berkeley, got hired temporarily by the Lawrence Laboratory with the title "Philosophy Consultant". Evidently the directorate of the lab thought there was some value in having a philosopher on hand for deep discussions of scientific principles as well as ethics.

 

[quddusaliquddus]

Intersting what u say quartodeciman.

Dissident Dan, what you're saying is liek saying without science we wouldn't know hot to invent the wheel or strike up a fire to cook. I partially agree, what i meant was Proper philosophy - deep stuff the common man doesn't care about (not too much anyway).

 

[theamazingTWOeyedman]

How is going to the moon useful? Useful for science? How is that useful? How is life useful?

Nobody can tell you what is useful or worth your time, you have to decide that for yourself.

 

[Njorl]

Professional philosophers are not in high demand. That is not the same as saying philosophers are useless. Philosophy is very useful. Unlike physics though, most of us do our own philosophy. Professional philosophy has a very slow, very weak trickle down effect. We hardly notice it. Do you respect the rights of others to think what they wish to think? That is the result of philosophy. Not all that long ago, people were most assuredly not allowed to think what they wanted. That is so alien to me, I can barely comprehend it.

Njorl

 

[quddusaliquddus]

Well summed up Njorl ... i guess 'trickled down' is the key phrase would explain the apparent uselessness of philosophy - as the common man seeks to emulate the great men. What I was trying to get at was the junk-philosophy, that doesn't actually make us think - but rather makes us more close minded. It is learning without practice - scholasticism etc... Philosophy as just a subject - not a living thing.

 

[quartodeciman]

Sometimes things run in the opposite direction. Philosophers had a lot of control over science in the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Some were designated as academicians and often wielded the political power of the communist party and government. They could make or break mere scientists and professors, and often did so. All speculations about fundamental science in the former U.S.S.R. were subject to the test of Marxist-Leninist dialectical historical materialism. Anything smacking of idealist or positivist thinking, or thought to be so, was apt to be condemned. It got a bit better by the 1960s, when the government there wanted to keep pace with the theoretical science of the west.

 

[honestrosewater]

"Since your majesty and your lordships desire a simple reply, I will answer without horns and without teeth. Unless I am convicted by scripture and plain reason--I do not accept the authority of popes and councils for they have contradicted each other--my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I cannot do otherwise, God help me. Amen."

-Martin Luther, when he appeared before the German Congress at Worms in 1521.

Was that not a useful philosophical statement?

 

[Stevo]

Philosophy is not a subject, it is something you do!

 

[quddusaliquddus]

Ah Stevo! But it *is a subject to sum peoiple.

 

[Dissident Dan]

I think that the way that typical philosophy classes go about things turns people off to "philsophy". The classes cover topics that the students could care less about and don't go into any explanation of how the information could help the students. That is the wrong way to go about it.

 

[jcsd]

Philosophy today is redundant, all the useful asres have branched off and formed disciplines such as psychology, social science, physics, etc, leaving a philosophers unqualfied to do little more than teach philosophy.

All philosophers should eb rounded up and made to pull a big wheel around like the one in Conan the Babarian.

 

[Dissident Dan]

Wouldn't ethics fall under the general category of philosophy? I consider rthat highly important. Thoughts regrding deitical existence are philosophica and importance. Holding that philosophy is useless is a philosophy.

 

[jcsd]

Wouldn't ethics fall under the general category of philosophy? I consider rthat highly important. Thoughts regrding deitical existence are philosophica and importance. Holding that philosophy is useless is a philosophy.

No I'm holding thta the subject of philospohy and professional philosphers are useless in the modern age

 

[Njorl]

While no one ever says,"Hmm, we've got a problem here. We better call in a philosopher!", there are material benefits to studying philosophy. At good schools, the philosophy major is a challenge. Doing well in it is a demonstration of the ability to think well and think critically. Excelling in one of these programs is probably the surest path to getting into a good law school, and helps getting into grad school for other majors.

Njorl

 

[jcsd]

While no one ever says,"Hmm, we've got a problem here. We better call in a philosopher!", there are material benefits to studying philosophy. At good schools, the philosophy major is a challenge. Doing well in it is a demonstration of the ability to think well and think critically. Excelling in one of these programs is probably the surest path to getting into a good law school, and helps getting into grad school for other majors.

Njorl

I still think my big wheel idea is a good one. I'm going to contact the Governor New Mexico and discuss the possibility of building it there.

 

[loseyourname]

The professor's at St. John's will not appreciate that.

 

[Njorl]

So, would Sisyphus be happier pushing the big wheel than his boulder? If we assume that the labor is equally unpleasant, is the reward of nearly getting the boulder to the top worth the pain of seeing it roll down?

Njorl

 

[Les Sleeth]

Philosophy today is redundant, all the useful asres have branched off and formed disciplines such as psychology, social science, physics, etc, leaving a philosophers unqualfied to do little more than teach philosophy.

All philosophers should eb rounded up and made to pull a big wheel around like the one in Conan the Babarian.

Your problem is that you lump all philosophy together. I'd say rationalism is dead and redundant, but all that represents is a misguided aspect of philosophy.

By your logic, because of the pseudoscientists we should get all the scientists together and have them pull that big wheel. Haven't the pseudoscientists proven the ineffectiveness of science?

Meanwhile, some others of us are pondering how we can improve the quality of our thinking.

 

[jcsd]

Your problem is that you lump all philosophy together. I'd say rationalism is dead and redundant, but all that represents is a misguided aspect of philosophy.

By your logic, because of the pseudoscientists we should get all the scientists together and have them pull that big wheel. Haven't the pseudoscientists proven the ineffectiveness of science?

Meanwhile, some others of us are pondering how we can improve the quality of our thinking.

No, I say that the subject of philosphy as academically taught and those who teach are redunant, this applies to the whole blasted bunch of them, not just the rationalists etc.

So my logic would not conclude that scientists should have to pull the wheel as only the redunat have to.

 

[Les Sleeth]

No, I say that the subject of philosphy as academically taught and those who teach are redunant, this applies to the whole blasted bunch of them, not just the rationalists etc.

So my logic would not conclude that scientists should have to pull the wheel as only the redunat have to.

Ahhhh, so that's what you meant. In that case, let's get those philosophers to the wheel.

 

That is hilarious, my philoshophy teacher had the power of ultra slow thinking speed and the gift of perfect monotone voice, after awhile we were afraid to ask a question, combined they he had the ability to turn a class of caffeine and nicotine jolted students into drooling zombies- I admired his sadistic twist to his job that would otherwise be just another lecture job, by the 3ed week half the class had dropped out and there was no homework they just had to survive the lectures. Come to think of it aren't philosophers basically pushing a metal wheel around already, I mean it's all been said and done so what's to gain by volunteering, why not just let other people push the big wheel around and impart their knowledge to the really smart ones?

 

[Moonbear]

Philosophy today is redundant, all the useful asres have branched off and formed disciplines such as psychology, social science, physics, etc, leaving a philosophers unqualfied to do little more than teach philosophy.

All philosophers should eb rounded up and made to pull a big wheel around like the one in Conan the Babarian.

I haven't read the full thread yet, so this may have already been repeated and reinforced ad nauseum, but the above quote says it all. Philosophy is useful in that all sciences are an offshoot of the field. This is why someone getting a doctorate in the sciences is officially called a "doctor of philosophy" - Ph.D.) So it does seem odd to have philosophy retained as a distinct discipline when it really is an umbrella to most disciplines. That is why it seems so useless when one examines what comes out of a traditional philosophy department. When you look at scientific method, those in philosophy departments are stuck at the first stage, observing their environment, and haven't gotten far enough to develop testable hypotheses. If they were to advance to the point of developing a testable hypothesis, we'd see them finding a more specific niche in biology or psychology or physics, or some other more specific field of the sciences.

Some folks also were discussing ethics as a part of philosophy. I don't agree. The study of ethics and the debate of ethics are part of philosophy, but ethical behavior (behavior based on morality) is not something philosophy decides or determines or dictates, just can study how it evolves. We would still have ethics without philosophy, we just wouldn't have people systematically studying it.

 

[olde drunk]

the more science learns the more it becomes or veifies philosophical ideas.

QT, what is observed depends on the influence of the observer. philosophy has application beyond the physical. science is just beginning to examine, measure this realm.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Nicomachus]

If you think logic, science, morality, knowledge, epistemic foundations, etc are useless then sure it is useless. Though if you think that you are functionally a nihilist.
*Nico

 

[honestrosewater]

Um, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Hooray, I win