Valve/Material for Siphoning Air & Blocking Water

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a valve or material that allows air to pass in both directions while preventing water from passing in one direction. This is intended for use at the end of a tube for siphoning, where air needs to be blown in and suctioned out, while diverting collected water away from the tube's end.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about a valve or material that permits bidirectional air flow but blocks water flow in one direction, suggesting a need for a mechanism to redirect liquid away from the tube's end.
  • Another participant mentions various types of valves, including automatic valves, and suggests a floating ball valve that could block upward water flow while allowing air to pass.
  • A participant introduces the TEMISH sheet, claiming it allows air to pass while preventing water from escaping, and provides an example of its use with a cup of water.
  • Further discussion on TEMISH includes its properties as a dust and waterproof film, with a question raised about whether it allows water vapor to pass.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the potential for materials like TEMISH to become blocked by algae and their limited flow rates compared to mechanical valves.
  • A participant questions the air flow rate through TEMISH and speculates on the surface area needed for effective operation in a siphoning context.
  • Another participant raises a concern that the high point in a siphon may operate at negative gauge pressure, suggesting that TEMISH might allow air to enter instead of exit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of various materials and mechanisms for achieving the desired air and water flow characteristics. There is no consensus on a specific solution, and multiple competing ideas remain under consideration.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully defined the operational conditions, such as the pressure at the valve location or the specific requirements for air flow rates. The discussion includes assumptions about the behavior of materials under different conditions.

SAG93
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Hello,
I wonder if anyone knows of a valve or material that would allow air to pass both ways but prevent water to pass one way.
It will be on the end of a tube used for siphoning so that air can be blown in and suctioned out but if water is collected it is diverted away from the end of the tube by the valve/material into a separate bucket. There would need to be an arm off the tube at the point of the valve/material to redirect the liquid down.
 
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Welcome to PF.
There are valves for anything you might need. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_valves
Automatic valves are commonly used to drain water from the bottom of a compressed air system, or to vent air from a high point in an otherwise closed pressurised water system.

Consider a ball that floats against a seat and so blocks the upward flow of water only.
Also consider keeping the outlet of the siphon below the surface of an outlet reservoir.

You have not identified at which end of your system the valve can be located. Is the internal pressure there above or below atmospheric pressure? Maybe a diagram would help. Drag and drop it into your post.
 
The amazing TEMISH sheet allows air to pass through, but not water. Stick it on a cup containing water, and water will not spill even if you turn the cup upside down.
 
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@Elsa Black. Welcome to PF.
Thanks for the suggestion.

TEMISH™ is a dust and waterproof Fluoroplastic Porous Film that will allow air to pass.
https://www.nitto.com/au/en/products/group/temish/
It appears to be available as small stick on filters that protect high technology from the environment.
But does it allow water vapour to pass with the other gasses?

Gore-Tex is a similar PTFE material that can repel liquid water while allowing water vapor to pass.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gore-Tex

The problem with these fabrics is that they can rapidly be blocked by material such as algae.
Unlike mechanical valves, they can only support a low rate of flow.
 
Elsa Black said:
The amazing TEMISH sheet allows air to pass through, but not water. Stick it on a cup containing water, and water will not spill even if you turn the cup upside down.

That does sound unique. But it doesn't say how fast the air passes through. The OP has a siphon entrained with an air bubble. Let's say that the air bubble builds up in the pipe at rate of 1 cm3 per minute. The pressure difference inside the pipe and out is slight. Roughly how much surface area of TEMISH would be needed to do that job?
 
On second thought, the high point in a siphon likely operates at negative gauge pressure. Wouldn't the TEMISH let air in rather than out?
 

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