Vibrational frequency of electrons in atoms

[desta41]

Below is a paragraph taken from the web site, physicsclassroom.com:

'It is often useful to think of these electrons as being attached to the atoms by springs. The electrons and their attached springs have a tendency to vibrate at specific frequencies. Similar to a tuning fork or even a musical instrument, the electrons of atoms have a natural frequency at which they tend to vibrate. When a light wave with that same natural frequency impinges upon an atom, then the electrons of that atom will be set into vibrational motion. (This is merely another example of the resonance principle introduced in Unit 11 of The Physics Classroom Tutorial.) If a light wave of a given frequency strikes a material with electrons having the same vibrational frequencies, then those electrons will absorb the energy of the light wave and transform it into vibrational motion.'

Can the above be right? Wouldn't the vibrational frequencies of the electrons in atoms be non classical? And, what Hz would the frequencies be for the electrons?

 

[jerromyjon]

Wouldn't the vibrational frequencies of the electrons in atoms be non classical?

Molecular electron behavior is non-classical, but the atoms they connect and whatever the oscillation resonance these atoms exhibit is basically classical boundaries.

And, what Hz would the frequencies be?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_spectroscopy
http://www.physics.uci.edu/~wilsonho/N062598.htm

 

[desta41]

Molecular electron behavior is non-classical, but the atoms they connect and whatever the oscillation resonance these atoms exhibit is basically classical boundaries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_spectroscopy
http://www.physics.uci.edu/~wilsonho/N062598.htm

Thank you for that information. But do you know what the frequencies of the electrons would be? Not the atoms and molecules, but just the vibrational frequency range for electrons..

 

[jerromyjon]

Electrons don't have a measurable frequency in classical terms, they have a mass of 511,000 eV but no definable "location" to even track a frequency.

 

[desta41]

Electrons don't have a measurable frequency in classical terms, they have a mass of 511,000 eV but no definable "location" to even track a frequency.

That's what I had thought. But I've been told there is a frequency associated to the orbitals, but it is a frequency related to the Schrödinger equation and not to a classical vibration. Do you know what those frequencies would be in Hz, kHz, etc.?

 

[jerromyjon]

Do you know what those frequencies would be in Hz, kHz, etc.?

1/2 reduced Planck spin? This isn't really a "frequency" in a natural sense. If it were, Bell's Theorem would explain reality as marbles bouncing around and the universe wouldn't add up as it always does.

 

[desta41]

1/2 reduced Planck spin? This isn't really a "frequency" in a natural sense. If it were, Bell's Theorem would explain reality as marbles bouncing around and the universe wouldn't add up as it always does.

Yes, 1/2 reduced Planck spin sounds like what was being referenced. So a different type of "frequency" then (not a natural one)..

 

[jerromyjon]

So a different type of "frequency" then..

it is a frequency related to the Schrödinger equation

Yes, and I can't stress enough that these "frequencies" have nothing physically or mathematically in common with classical frequency except geometry in a sense, in that they behave like waves.

 

[desta41]

Yes, and I can't stress enough that these "frequencies" have nothing physically or mathematically in common with classical frequency except geometry in a sense, in that they behave like waves.

So, perhaps the best way of understanding this is that it's a wavefunction which spreads out through space and "vibrates" due to angular momentum, but it never moves in a classical sense.

 

[jerromyjon]

So, perhaps the best way of understanding this is that it's a wavefunction which spreads out through space and "vibrates" due to angular momentum, but it never moves in a classical sense.

Sounds right to me.

 

[tech99]

Sounds right to me.

I should have thought that plasmon resonances are electron resonances as you describe. I believe the red colour of copper and the silver colour of silver are caused by these resonances.