Voltage Across Diode Pair: Ideal Source | Vin Positive Half

  • Thread starter Thread starter anhnha
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Diode Voltage
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of an ideal diode pair connected to an ideal voltage source during the positive half of an AC cycle. Participants explore the implications of ideal components, particularly focusing on paradoxes that arise when considering short circuits and the interaction between ideal voltage and current sources.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that if the diodes are ideal, the voltage across the diode pair is always zero when one diode is forward biased, under the condition of an ideal current source.
  • Another participant highlights the paradox of a zero resistance voltage source being loaded by a perfect diode, suggesting that this leads to infinite current.
  • A participant questions the voltage across the diode pair when the AC source is an ideal voltage source, seeking clarification on whether it is zero or equal to the input voltage during the positive half.
  • Discussion includes the concept of shorting an ideal voltage source and the implications of applying limits to resolve paradoxes, with one participant referencing L'Hospital's Rule.
  • Another participant challenges the notion of a paradox when connecting a current source to a voltage source, suggesting that one source will deliver power to the other based on their relative polarities.
  • There is an acknowledgment of uncertainty regarding the application of mathematical limits and whether they are valid in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the situation constitutes a paradox, with some asserting it does while others argue against this characterization. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of ideal components in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference mathematical limits and the behavior of ideal components, but there is no consensus on the validity of these approaches or their implications for the circuit behavior.

anhnha
Messages
179
Reaction score
1
I am reading an old thread and because it is too old I can't post reply.
Here is the link: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=449044

If the diodes are ideal, there is no reverse leakage current, & no forward voltage drop. If the ac source is an ideal current source, the voltage across the diode pair is always zero, since 1 of the 2 diodes is forward biased.

If the ac source is an ideal voltage source, you get a paradox. A zero resistance perfect voltage source is loaded by a perfect diode with zero voltage drop, resulting in the current ramping up towards infinity.

Claude
I want to ask about the bold part. In the case, what is the voltage across the diode pair, zero or voltage source (Vin) when it is in positive half?
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
I=E/R and division by zero is undefined. That's the cop-out that I'd use.

Basically, you are asking what happens when you short an ideal voltage source. No need for a diode.

How about an ideal current source in series with an ideal voltage source?

The answer is : sorry, does not compute! Qualifies as a paradox.
 
Thank you.
Basically, you are asking what happens when you short an ideal voltage source. No need for a diode.
Yup.
I have just thought about this. Don't know if it is correct or not.
Consider a circuit including an ideal voltage source, V and an ideal wire is connected across two ends of the source.
Let's call the voltage between two ends of the ideal wire v.
v = \lim_{R \rightarrow 0} i.R = \lim_{R \rightarrow 0} \frac{V}{R} . R = V

(by apply L'Hospital's Rule for 0/0)
How about an ideal current source in series with an ideal voltage source?

The answer is : sorry, does not compute! Qualifies as a paradox.
Can you tell me why this is a paradox?
 
Last edited:
anhnha said:
Can you tell me why this is a paradox?
No idea how I came to that conclusion. I should go back and edit it out. LOL

Applying limits is the only valid approach for dealing with infinity, but I can't help you with whether this is a valid application of L'Hospital's Rule.
 
Actually, thinking about it a bit, I think you nailed it. In the limit it makes sense.
 
A current source connected to a voltage source is no paradoxat all. One will deliver power to the other. Connect a 1 volt source to a 1 amp source in a loop. The relative polarity determines which which one delivers and which one receives power.
Claude
 
didn't I just say that I was wrong? Which doesn't seem to be something you are capable of.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
8K
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
34K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
7K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
10K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
14K