Voltage Substractor simple circuit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around modifying a voltage adder circuit to create a voltage subtractor using common emitter amplifier configurations. Participants explore various circuit designs, including emitter followers and common emitter amplifiers, while debating the implications of different configurations on voltage gain and output behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the original circuit as an emitter follower configuration with a positive voltage gain close to 1.
  • Others suggest using a common emitter configuration, which provides a negative gain, as a potential solution for creating a voltage subtractor.
  • There are claims that the proposed circuit resembles a primitive "OR" gate, with suggestions to consider using current mirrors for voltage arithmetic.
  • Some participants express a preference for avoiding op-amps and focusing solely on common emitter amplifiers.
  • Concerns are raised about the interaction between input voltages and the potential for unwanted current flow if diodes are removed from the circuit.
  • Participants discuss the need for inverting one of the signals to achieve subtraction and the importance of ensuring that the gain of the inverter is 1.0.
  • There are conflicting views on whether the original circuit will function as intended, with some stating it will behave like an OR gate and others asserting that it will not work as hoped.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the effectiveness of the proposed circuit configurations, with no consensus reached on a definitive solution for creating a voltage subtractor. Disagreements persist regarding the nature of the original circuit and its output behavior.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in understanding the circuit's behavior, particularly regarding the influence of input voltages on output. There are unresolved questions about the specific requirements for achieving accurate subtraction without introducing complexity.

  • #31
Helena Wells said:
And make it even more complex? No thank you! Simplicity is king.
The problem with this statement is that while the schematic may be simple, the basic BJT device is anything but simple. Look at the schematic of a simple op-amp, like LM741. The reason they have so many transistors is to compensate for non-linear and non-ideal effects. In practice, for analog circuits you will most often see transistors used in pairs to help compensate for the imperfections of the basic devices. Analog transistor circuits just aren't simple in the real world.

It's really great that you are exploring this because it is the best way to learn, at a fundamental level, about analog circuitry. However, in a real EE lab a simple op-amp is the same size, the same cost, and works better than a single discrete transistor. Discrete transistors, in practice, are use for high frequencies, high power, and the simplest digital/switching applications.

Also, as I think has already been said, in your original circuit, if one diode is on the other will be (mostly) off. It is a classic logic circuit, like voting. Not a voltage input adder at all. You can see this if you consider a diode model that acts as a perfect switch, either 100% on or 0% on.
 
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  • #32
After a bit of thread cleanup, this thread is done. Thanks everybody for trying to help Helena with her growing understanding of electronics. :smile:
 

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