WA moves to ban copper in brake pads

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In summary, researchers are still trying to determine the long-term effects of copper from brake pads on aquatic life. There is some evidence that it can harm salmon, but it's not clear if the ban is necessary. The costs associated with this policy are low, and the ban seems reasonable.
  • #1
Greg Bernhardt
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This is an interesting piece I am torn about. Copper from brake pads are known to run off into water ways. It is also known in lab experiments that the copper levels found in the water ways can affect salmon. Yet, there is no documentation for this happening in the wild. The state is going ahead and banning copper in brakes. Is this jumping the gun or an acceptable preventative measure?

Researchers have yet to document any instances in nature of copper from urban runoff causing widespread problems for aquatic life. But laboratory studies by government scientists have shown that copper at the low levels that have been found in waterways harms young coho salmon's sense of smell, reducing their ability to escape from predators.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/90643739.html
 
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  • #2
Seems reasonable to me. Research on the matter should probably continue; if more data shows that there is no problem, the ban can be lifted.
 
  • #3
Like anything else, this is a system with too many variables to consider. Copper from the brakes could be the culprit, but one is still going blind without a proper investigation. If they are proved right then they were lucky, if proved wrong then unlucky.
 
  • #4
As with all issues in public policy, we need to do a cost-benefit analysis. There is some evidence that the policy might provide a benefit to the environment. But, what about the costs of such a ban? From the article:
The auto industry did not oppose the legislation.
The industry believes it can produce a safe and reasonably priced brake pad without copper, said Terry Heffelfinger, director of product engineering for Affinia Global Brake & Chassis, a major brake maker. One alternative may be ceramic brake pads, which have grown in popularity in recent years.

This suggests that the costs associated with banning copper are very low and not likely to affect brake prices or availability. Given that the costs of such a policy are low, the ban seems reasonable. If the monetary costs associated with such a ban were high, you could make the case that the state should require stronger evidence before enacting the ban.
 
  • #5
Ygggdrasil, do you think any run off from the ~700 copper mines in WI could contribute to this problem rather than car brakes?
 
  • #6
Greg Bernhardt said:
Ygggdrasil, do you think any run off from the ~700 copper mines in WI could contribute to this problem rather than car brakes?

Why would those to be mutually exclusive?
 
  • #7
CRGreathouse said:
if more data shows that there is no problem, the ban can be lifted.

Technically you are right, politically... once you ban copper (heavy metal! it is toxic! it kills our kids!) there is no way back.
 
  • #8
Copper is expensive as hell. The Chinese are buying it by the ton like it is penny candy. Banning copper in brake pads would free up copper for other uses, which would bring the price down a couple of cents. nothing noteworthy though.
 
  • #9
There is copper in asphalt roofing shingles too. Are they going to ban that as well? How about antifouling paints in ships/boats?

Kill the humans!
 
  • #10
It's almost like copper comes from the ground.
 
  • #11
In order to determine the contribution of brake pads to copper loading to the San Francisco Bay, the Santa Clara Valley Nonpoint Source Pollution Control Program performed a study which was published a study in February 1994 entitled the Contribution of Heavy Metals to Storm Water from Automotive Disc Brake Pad Wear. The purpose of the study was to determine the copper content of brake pads and to model the stormwater load from these results. Its authors were unable to obtain information on brake pad composition and wear rates voluntarily from automobile and brake pad manufacturers. Instead, they conducted laboratory tests to analyze disc brake composition. From the results of stormwater load models, the Program estimated that dust from disc brake pad wear contributes over 40 percent of the non-point source copper loading to the Bay, or approximately 35 percent of the total copper load. Figure 1 shows the contribution of brake pads to the total copper load to the Bay. Brake pads are the largest single source of copper discharge to the Bay that has been identified thus far...
http://scvurppp-w2k.com/cu_control_measures/Brake%20Pads/Other%20Related%20Information/B_brkrpt.pdf
 
  • #12
chemisttree said:
Kill the humans!

Finally, a voice of reason.
 
  • #13
So if everyone is done venting, maybe this question could be addressed intelligently?
 
  • #14
Interesting, I never would have thought about brake pads being a serious water pollutant.
 
  • #15
Couple other points that need an answer before we know such a ban would have a useful impact:

What about background? Neither the scvurppp-w2k or komonews links show how brake pad copper pollution raises the Cu concentrations over background trace. Seawater already contains http://mistupid.com/chemistry/seawatercomp.htm" . The studies did a lot work on showing how much brake pad Cu dust contributes to the overall man made Cu load, but if that's small compared to the natural background so what?

What about the rest of the brake pad composite material, whatever it is? If that happens to be far more toxic than the Cu component, then spending effort to remove Cu is likely wasted.
 
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  • #16
Evo said:
Interesting, I never would have thought about brake pads being a serious water pollutant.

I doubt they are.
 
  • #17
Activists have to feel accomplished about something. "We banned copper in brake pads! Yeah, go team!"


I doubt it is a serious problem, as there are far more harmful things coming off of cars than a minute amount of dust from a brake pad.
 
  • #18
MotoH said:
Activists have to feel accomplished about something. "We banned copper in brake pads! Yeah, go team!"


I doubt it is a serious problem, as there are far more harmful things coming off of cars than a minute amount of dust from a brake pad.

They are looking to fix those problems too... this is one of them and it happens to be a very easy fix. Why not go for it?
 
  • #19
zomgwtf said:
They are looking to fix those problems too... this is one of them and it happens to be a very easy fix. Why not go for it?

That's what I'm thinking, too. The fact that the auto industry says it's no big deal is telling. They seem to cry about every little thing.
 

Related to WA moves to ban copper in brake pads

1. What is the reason for the proposed ban on copper in brake pads in WA?

The proposed ban on copper in brake pads in WA is due to its harmful effects on the environment and public health. Copper particles from brake pads can be released into the air and water during normal use, contributing to pollution and potentially causing harm to aquatic life.

2. When will the ban on copper in brake pads go into effect in WA?

The ban on copper in brake pads is expected to go into effect in WA in 2022. This will give manufacturers enough time to transition to alternative materials and ensure that there is a sufficient supply of copper-free brake pads for consumers.

3. How will the ban on copper in brake pads be enforced in WA?

The ban on copper in brake pads will be enforced by the Department of Ecology in WA. They will monitor compliance and may issue fines or other penalties for non-compliance. Consumers can also play a role by choosing to purchase copper-free brake pads and reporting any non-compliant products to the department.

4. Are there any alternative materials that can be used in brake pads instead of copper?

Yes, there are several alternative materials that can be used in brake pads instead of copper. These include ceramic, organic, and semi-metallic materials. These materials have been shown to be just as effective in braking performance while also being more environmentally friendly.

5. Will the ban on copper in brake pads affect the cost of brake pads in WA?

It is possible that the ban on copper in brake pads may lead to a slight increase in cost for consumers in WA. However, this cost increase is expected to be minimal and is outweighed by the benefits of protecting the environment and public health. Additionally, as more manufacturers transition to using alternative materials, the cost difference is likely to decrease over time.

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