News We are a nation of whiners

1. Jul 10, 2008

Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus

He says that ~ "the recession is mental".

True, the technical requirement for a recesssion is not met, but people have attitudes about the economy based on their own personal budgets and problems. Is he saying that many Americans are not hurting? It sounds that way. So I see this going a long way towards affirming to voters that McCain is out of touch, as are his friends and advisors. Being as how McCain is not strong on economics, having an advisor who even appears to be unsympathetic to people's problems, will help to add bricks to the quickly growing wall.

Gramm now is trying to say that he meant politicians and not the voters, and since no one will believe that, he appears to be not only unsympathetic, but also a liar - a good ole boy.

Hopefully McCain will keep him on-staff.

Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
2. Jul 10, 2008

Gokul43201

Staff Emeritus
They didn't even spell his name right! :yuck:

Gramm is the chief architect of the current state of deregulation, that title being earned through his brilliant introduction of a mostly ununderstood section into the Commodity Futures Modernization Act (2000).

3. Jul 10, 2008

Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
I cringe at the glowing talk of exports.

And that is just paper. Selling recyclable materials to China is generally big business.

I hardly see the references to exports as being representive of the state of US manufacturing, or our competitiveness abroad. In fact, being that much of the exports are garbage, it is really just a measure of the trade deficit - a natural consequence of imports.

Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
4. Jul 10, 2008

Gramm and McCain are dilettante millionaires who wouldn't know economic pain under any foreseeable circumstance. Maine is losing mills and good-paying jobs left and right due to the poor economy and the rapidly increasing price of fuel. There was a story on the local news recently about a company that is doing pretty well. The company specializes in hauling big rigs (think VERY potent wrecker truck) and their business is through the roof. Truckers can't make money on their loads with $5/gal diesel, especially if they are filling wood contracts to pulp/paper mills that they signed a year ago. They can't make enough money to keep making payments on the trucks, so they abandon them and let the banks have them hauled off and auctioned. The banks who loaned against these trucks are taking it in the neck, too, because nobody around here wants to buy the trucks and try to operate them in this environment. Some of the very large trucking companies are consolidating and picking up business, but the small-medium owner-operator companies are going out of business. Trucking is just a segment of our state's economy, but it is an important one, with ripple-effects that are negatively impacting other sectors. Maybe we haven't met the technical definition of a "recession" yet, but we're in free-fall and this one promises to be long and deep. 5. Jul 10, 2008 Astronuc Staff Emeritus We aren't in a recession because the GDP hasn't not declined - probably because the federal government is borrowing the money, and they don't count that. The US spent about 2.25 trillion dollars on health care in 2007 (I need to find the reference), or abou 15.6% of the GDP. That's pretty sad. A good chunk of that would be for treating preventable diseases. On the other hand, the average net worth of Americans has declined for the last 3 quarters. (I'm looking for the citation on this). 6. Jul 10, 2008 Hurkyl Staff Emeritus A wonderful start for an objective argument. 7. Jul 10, 2008 turbo I'll bet you that neither of them can tell you the price of gas, diesel, or home heating oil, and that neither of them could tell you how much the average family's grocery bill has increased in the past year, nor give you a ballpark figure on how much health insurance would cost an average family, nor a ballpark estimate on what percentage of an average family's take-home pay would need to be spent to buy that insurance. These guys are millionaires who get their Italian-suited butts driven around in limos and fly from place to place in corporate jets. Their overly-simplistic views of macro-economics do not extend down to the economics of regions, cities, nor individuals. For those two nuts to characterize real economic pain felt by real people as a matter of perception (not real) is insulting in the extreme. Oh, the people don't have bread? Let them eat cake. 8. Jul 10, 2008 edward 9. Jul 10, 2008 mheslep And Millionaire Ivy leaguer Senator Obama could tell give all these common touches of course. 10. Jul 10, 2008 turbo The difference is (ta Dah!) that Obama does not tell average citizens that they are not suffering in this poor economy. McCain and Gramm did, and they are out of touch with the US public. This disconnect is telling. 11. Jul 10, 2008 WarPhalange Millionaire? 12. Jul 10, 2008 Gokul43201 Staff Emeritus That's rich. No doubt you know that Obama (net worth$1.3 million) has only been a millionaire for the last couple years or so, and grew up on food stamps and student loans. McCain, on the other hand, is worth $40 million, enjoys the luxury of about a dozen homes and can't seem to remember what he said in his last speech (let alone the days before he was a millionaire, not that he was ever in a poor financial state even then). 13. Jul 10, 2008 Hurkyl Staff Emeritus If you have all these points, then why not stick to them? When you lace your posts with name-calling and such, especially as your opening salvo, you discredit yourself. 14. Jul 10, 2008 LowlyPion I think McCain has suggested that he would appoint him Ambassador to Belarus after distancing himself from Graham's remarks. The CNN anchor wondered whether people in Minsk would be OK with that. 15. Jul 10, 2008 Ivan Seeking Staff Emeritus We will see. It was a cute joke [a nice deflection], but McCain and Gramm go way back. 16. Jul 10, 2008 humanino No. It was Qu'on leur donne de la brioche ! 17. Jul 11, 2008 mheslep Sen. Obama is well on his way with a 2005 income of$1.7M, give him time. By the time he's old enough to start shaving he may have $40M too. A new autobiography every 10 years should do it. 18. Jul 11, 2008 mheslep And attended an http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec04/obama_7-27.html" [Broken]which has a current tuition of$16k/yr.

Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
19. Jul 11, 2008

Gokul43201

Staff Emeritus
And you can make your argument at that time.

Right now, if the best you folks can come up with are quips about shaving, you must really be pretty desperate.

20. Jul 11, 2008

Gokul43201

Staff Emeritus
Well if he had an academic scholarship, then that $16K/yr is meaningless, isn't it? Especially if you compare this with the exclusive private prep school that McCain attended (probably without scholarship), which has a current tuition of over$38K/yr...

Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
21. Jul 11, 2008

WarPhalange

He was smart enough to get a scholarship worth \$16k/year? How is that a bad thing?

Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
22. Jul 11, 2008

seycyrus

Ehh, keep yapping about which millionaire has more money.

The truth is, there *IS* alot of whining about things. The economy is not in the greatest shape right now, but the relentless day in, day out, in your face focus on it is a bit ridiculous.

One again this weekend, I will sit outside Starbucks, reading and drinking my straight black joe (in a mug mind you). People will go in, leaving their cars running for 15 minutes with the air conditioning running full blast, bringing back 4 or 5 frappe-latte-matte-satte cappucinos (with whip) that cost about 5 bucks apiece, which they will then distribute to the group of 6 year olds in the car, all the while complaining about the cost of gas.

What crystal ball do I possess that allows me to make such predictions? Experience. it's happened every darn weekend this summer.

23. Jul 11, 2008

Astronuc

Staff Emeritus
Sounds like SoCal.

I wonder if that is one of the stores that Starbucks will close. Perhaps not if it has been open two years or more.

24. Jul 11, 2008

humanino

For a second, I thought you said Sokal !

25. Jul 11, 2008

edward

Gramm worked as a lobbyist to help prevent regulation of the sub prime loan industry.