Welding Machine Increases Power: Physically Impossible?

[essenmein]

Wow. Forgive me, but your welder must be very irritating to use. Most give the duty at full output, and also the output at 60% duty, which I assume is considered reasonably usable. In a typical project, the time taken between welds to set up, clamp, mark etc means a 60% DC won’t cramp your style.

Given that a 20% DC means 12s on, 48s off, over the whole project it would take the machine a full minute to do each 2” or so of weld bead.

When buying a welder, the advice is to get one that has at least 60% DC at the output you will tend to use, rather than to look at the maximum output. The quality can be estimated by how the DC falls off as output rises.

It is only a 110V hobby wire feeder, be gentle!

That said, I've only encountered a problem with duty cycle once while running multiple passes on some structural 1/4" framing for my truck front/rear bumper/trailer hitches. And that was a lot of continuous welding!

Note I'm always using 0.35 wire at max current, maybe one setting down if thinner base material to avoid blowing through, I've put about 5-6 10lb spools through the machine so far. So as far as complaints go, the only thing I would have is that it definitely does not have enough grunt to run aluminium through a spool gun.

 

[Guineafowl]

It is only a 110V hobby wire feeder, be gentle!

That said, I've only encountered a problem with duty cycle once while running multiple passes on some structural 1/4" framing for my truck front/rear bumper/trailer hitches. And that was a lot of continuous welding!

Note I'm always using 0.35 wire at max current, maybe one setting down if thinner base material to avoid blowing through, I've put about 5-6 10lb spools through the machine so far. So as far as complaints go, the only thing I would have is that it definitely does not have enough grunt to run aluminium through a spool gun.

Horses for courses, as they say. I have always tried to go for machines slightly overrated for intended purpose, on the grounds of flexibility and longevity!

 

[essenmein]

Horses for courses, as they say. I have always tried to go for machines slightly overrated for intended purpose, on the grounds of flexibility and longevity!

Its one of those things, its my first welder, bought used (older Lincoln mig pak) with budget constraints. Once we move and I have a larger shop a larger machine is planned, ideally multi-process, at least MIG/TIG for mild steel/SS/Al.

But for $250 and so far zero problems, I really have nothing to complain about with my little welder!

 

[sophiecentaur]

But for $250 and so far zero problems, I really have nothing to complain about with my little welder!

I paid a lot less than that for mine (second hand) and the only weak link in the chain is ME. Working on the principle that the best results may possibly be limited by the equipment and the rest are operator error, it's really not bad.

Beware of enthusiasts and experts when taking advice about what to buy. I also fall into that category for some things but I often question whether the money I have spent on posh gear was really worth it. But, otoh, owning and using something nice is very pleasant.
I went over the top for several purchases but that cheap welder and the other few machine tools I have, have been really worth their salt.
"Buy cheap, buy twice" is a good motto but sometimes buying three things is better than ending up with just one.

 

[cmb]

How is it possible for a welding machine to end up creating more power than what it started with if that is physically impossible? For ex; 200 amp @ 28vdc welding machine. starts out with main voltage being 120v @ 20amps = 2400 watts then converts it to 200 amps at 28vdc which = 5,600 watts of power.

How indeed? Measure the input and output, and let us know ... maybe you will have discovered a solution to all our energy needs?

I would assume this is referring to strike voltage and subsequently operating current. It will be a function of the welding configuration that will determine what the voltage is pulled down to by the load once the arc is struck.

 

[sophiecentaur]

maybe you will have discovered a solution to all our energy needs?

The spec, taken at face value, is nonsense but we have generations of users who understand the implications, to the user, of the figures and who don't need to consider the niceties of proper Science.

There is a very long list of equivalent nonsenses in the way appliances are marketed. There's no point in losing sleep or getting cross about it.

I remember taking a vernier calliper into a car spares shop when I was after a 'replacement' item. They asked me about my fancy adjustable spanner - and 'larfed' menacingly amongst themselves. It's another world out there.

 

[essenmein]

I remember taking a vernier calliper into a car spares shop when I was after a 'replacement' item. They asked me about my fancy adjustable spanner - and 'larfed' menacingly amongst themselves. It's another world out there.

Thats when you smile awkwardly and slowly back out of the store to go somewhere where people understand things.

Maybe they laughed at you because you really needed a micrometer to tell what ever you were measuring... lol

 

[essenmein]

I paid a lot less than that for mine (second hand) and the only weak link in the chain is ME. Working on the principle that the best results may possibly be limited by the equipment and the rest are operator error, it's really not bad.

Beware of enthusiasts and experts when taking advice about what to buy. I also fall into that category for some things but I often question whether the money I have spent on posh gear was really worth it. But, otoh, owning and using something nice is very pleasant.
I went over the top for several purchases but that cheap welder and the other few machine tools I have, have been really worth their salt.
"Buy cheap, buy twice" is a good motto but sometimes buying three things is better than ending up with just one.

$250 was a good price for my machine here based on local resale, what did you buy for less? Stick welder or wire feeder?

I wouldn't call mine a "cheap" welder, but a "small" welder, it is limited in output current, but well made. You can still get "cheap" small welders and they are junk.

My problem is that the machine I'd like to buy now that I know more is about an order of magnitude more expensive

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-ca/Equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K4195-2(LincolnElectric)

 

[Hal Jordan]

If this were politics, we would call it the “argument of a false premise” and it is done all of the time to advance a position. E.g., “Since America Has the best education system in the world.” When in fact, we rate at #126 for Literacy with only 86% - there are 26 countries with a 100% rate and another 54 at 98-99%. We only spend more than any other country to educate our children. Maybe why the signs on our welders are incorrect?

 

[zoki85]

Nameplates of most of welder brands are correct. Another thing is many people don't know to read them correctly. It is true however that sellers and manufacturers advertise some products with figures ridiculously blown out of proportions.

[Moderator: some comments removed.]

 

[Kenwstr]

You all realize that there are many examples of electrical devices that output more power than is input.
Just take a reachable battery for example, may take 10 hr to charge & 10 minutes to drain, but in that 10 minutes the power can be an order of magnitude greater than the input power. There is a difference between the definition of power and the definition of energy.

Another example would be an audio amplifier's peak power which comes from the energy stored in it's power caps...