Construction What Are the Best Types of Welding for Beginners?

[sbrothy]

Well, there’s some practical use cases, especially for damascus or laminate steel construction. A very common modern approach is to MIG weld the corners of a stack of plates together to make forge welding of the initial billet much more controllable. Likewise, if making a canister damascus, you will need to weld the canister mostly closed, aside from a vent for gases to escape as it heats.

Sorry for coming back to this so late, but I think I've been bothered unconsciously by your canister vent hole remark there. I've never seen anyone on the program "Forged in Fire" make, or even hint of, such a hole.

Searching online I can at least see that it's not unheard of, though I naively thought you were supposed to fill the canister to the very brink using powdered metal and weld it completely shut.

Not so apparently. You care to share some experience or should I just RTFM?

 

[Flyboy]

My concern is about the pressure buildup in a fully sealed canister as you heat it to forging temperature. I could be wrong, but it seems dangerous to have it completely enclosed.

 

[sbrothy]

A legitimate concern surely. I'll make sure I read up on this very carefully before aspiring to a Darwin Award!

Thanks.

 

[Baluncore]

I could be wrong, but it seems dangerous to have it completely enclosed.

You need to be a good welder, to seal a box on the first attempt. There will always be a pin-hole that will allow the escape of internal gas pressure in a small furnace, if there was not, then the faces of the box will bulge with the heat, before a seam will open sufficiently. But don't rely on that.

In big scrap iron furnaces, there are minimum hole sizes required in otherwise closed vessels entering the scrap flow. That is to prevent explosions, and high speed jets of expanding-gas, that might otherwise endanger the operators or the furnace.

 

[sbrothy]

My plasma torch arrived and the manual says it's also capable of TIG-welding (which I then read is the most difficult to master, just my luck). But with some training I'm sure it'll be OK.

Incidentally, the manual also says that it shouldn't be operated if the humidity exceeds 80%, which I'm pretty sure it often does here in Denmark. But in a properly ventilated shop that shouldn't be a problem. I'm not gonna be welding on the beach after all. :)

 

[Baluncore]

But in a properly ventilated shop that shouldn't be a problem. I'm not gonna be welding on the beach after all. :)

If you have a problem with humidity, draw the coldest air available into the compressor, if possible, through a low pressure chamber. Remove condensing water from that chamber while it is cold. As the air temperature then warms, the RH will fall.

 

[sbrothy]

OK, obviously I'm on a mission here. My thought is that if I can't find a place to set up shop myself (but of course I will), I can at least accumulate so many exotic tools that someone will invite me into their shop just to be able to use them. :)

For hobby blade forging how many tons is needed from a hydraulic press? Is 10 too little? Surely 15 must be enough, right?

Also, I better start thinking about insurance....

Got a selection of various tools from my brother. Angle grinder, hammers, random stuff. Also, I managed to secure a compressor for a pittance.

BTW, what does the manual for an anvil say?

"This way up. Don't drop on feet."? :P

 

[sophiecentaur]

Got a selection of various tools from my brother. Angle grinder, hammers, random stuff. Also, I managed to secure a compressor for a pittance.

I strongly recommend that you pause your acquisition of tools and get some actual experience of metal working. This need involve no more than a hot flame, a hammer (or two) and something to bash against. It may be fun to go through the catalogues but nothing like as much fun as making one piece of steel into another piece with a different shape (when it turns out right).
If you do a metalworking course then they won't start you on sword making, will they?

Lady driver in Manhattan to a policeman
:"How do I get to Carnegie Hal officer?"
"Practice, lady, practice."

 

[sbrothy]

Nope. But I don't like doing stuff on other people's terms. Especially not when I have to pay for it too. All I miss now is a hydraulic press, an anvil, a bunch of small stuff like protective gear - including fire extinguishers water/foam - perhaps a humidity gauge.

I have a devious socially manipulative plan (which is already cooking) of bringing a couple of friends into it so I (we) wont kill ourselves in the process. Perhaps they might even be coerced into paying for some materials.

I tried contacting both courses, artists and actual smithies (even the iron age village I mentioned) but I've been met with little or no understanding.

Hence I'm gonna do it on my terms. Period.

EDIT: Oh, and BTW I'm not so arrogant that I think I can start with sword making. I'll have several field days finding out how the various (dangerous) tools actually work.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Hence I'm gonna do it on my terms. Period.

I hope you have deep pockets. Going your own way is a good way to become disappointed in a field like metalwork. Every process you want to use needs a lot of learning and the right preparation. Brownian motion is not a good way for forward progress.

PS is this your first 'project' or do you already have equipment for other ventures?

 

[sbrothy]

This is my first project. I'm confident that I'm going to like it though, or I wouldn't invest so much (which isn't really that much if you go through the books. I'll gladly show the final bill when I'm done and operating). The most expensive item I have yet to buy: a hydraulic press. And then I need some poor schmuck who will think it's a good idea to rent out a garage to a complete noob "smith", but with all the equipment I have I'll look very professional. :)

There's also a deeper reason I use my money this way. If not spent on something meaningful I have a tendency to burn through my money in an otherwise entirely non-productive way. I'd rather have something to show for them than nothing at all.

And then there's the social aspect to it. I can gauge people's commitment by the way they're willing to invest time and money.

I promised you pictures and you're gonna get some. Just lemme set up shop first. Next 1. I think I'm up and running.

 

[sophiecentaur]

but I've been met with little or no understanding.

Perhaps there's a message in there somewhere? Do you think all those craftsmen / experts could all be wrong? Who's misunderstanding who?

 

[sbrothy]

Trust me, I've written very polite and realistic requests. Telling them that I realise that they hardly want an amatoer running around, but maybe they knew of someone, perhaps an artist, that could provide me with a basic course with me paying of course. The problem is that I do not want to make a living of it so I don't want to take a slot from an apprentrice who means it seriously, and the courses I did manage to find was of the type where a teacher walked six pupils through making a beer opener or some such which is simply not what I want.

I realise I sound a little crazy setting up a smithy from scratch without any proper supervision or experience but don't worry, as a retired programmer I'm used to reading manuals and I'm not going turn on a potentially lethal machine without proper protection in place. Which might include another person to be able to make an important call.

So yeah, I know how this sounds. Also realise that I might be laying it on a little thick just to get a laugh out of you. ;)

 

[sbrothy]

EDIT: THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A JOKE. See end of post!


So yeah, I’m almost ready to start in my residential apartment. I’m sure my neighbors wont mind at all:

The plasma torch/TIG-welder is in the right box.

(I’m joking. I assure you! I’m not *that* insane. :) )

 

[sophiecentaur]

Planning to operate that sort of equipment in the home is very risky. Your workshop facility needs to be either out of doors or in a fireproof room with copious air extraction. The way you are going won;t impress the moderators on PF. You can probabkly expect to be shut down from PF soon. That's a shame.

 

[sbrothy]

Seriously, did you not read the post? It says that this is obviously a joke and that I am not insane.

 

[berkeman]

and that I am not insane

Well, let's not go tooo far...

 

[Averagesupernova]

Seriously, did you not read the post? It says that this is obviously a joke and that I am not insane.

I can just see it. The pic of your equipment in your apartment with a short description (as shown above). No joking about it as you did and someone says: Surely you don't intend to try this in your apartment do you!?!?!?!?

 

[sbrothy]

I can just see it. The pic of your equipment in your apartment with a short description (as shown above). No joking about it as you did and someone says: Surely you don't intend to try this in your apartment do you!?!?!?!?

Of course not. I would think the language and articulation would be an almost dead giveaway. Especially at a place like this forum where I can assume people has at least a basic education. At the end it actually *says* I’m joking. Maybe read the entire post before going into a panic? @sophiecentaur Assuming other people are more stupid than yourself isn’t nice either. ;)

Seriously though:

I’m in the process of renting a proper commercial tool shop. I’m going to have a look at it next week.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Of course not. I would think the language and articulation would be an almost dead giveaway. Especially at a place like this forum where I can assume people has at least a basic education. At the end it actually *says* I’m joking. Maybe read the entire post before going into a panic? @sophiecentaur Assuming other people are more stupid than yourself isn’t nice either. ;)

Seriously though:

I’m in the process of renting a proper commercial tool shop. I’m going to have a look at it next week.

Ok maybe I am misreading this post but I thought it should be pretty clear to you that I understood you were joking about lighting it up in your apartment. Am I to understand you think I'm in a panic over this? Trust me, even if I did think you are serious, I wouldn't care. That's just who I am.

 

[sbrothy]

Ok maybe I am misreading this post but I thought it should be pretty clear to you that I understood you were joking about lighting it up in your apartment. Am I to understand you think I'm in a panic over this? Trust me, even if I did think you are serious, I wouldn't care. That's just who I am.

Ahaha. No I wasn’t refereing to you. You seem to have understood perfectly. In fact, I wasn’t referring to the casual reader either. I was referring to the person - whoever that might be - who reported the post but failed to read the entire thing.

;)

What I don’t understand is that the post I made just before that one explicitly told that I might be laying it on a little thick to get a cheap laugh out of folks.

Maybe it’s because we all sometimes, ie, select “Hot Threads”, or similar, and want to contribute but it’s several pages of posts from different people and reading an entire thread to point out a specific point you want to make might not seem necessary. In thruth it might not. I’ve done it myself. I’m not holy here. But misunderstandigs may quickly be the result.

:)

 

[berkeman]

In fact, I wasn’t referring to the casual reader either. I was referring to the person - whoever that might be - who reported the post but failed to read the entire thing.

Well to be fair, it wasn't really clear what-all you were kidding about. This is one of my comments in the Mentor discussion thread about the reported post:

He said in his post that he was joking, but I could not tell which part he was joking about. The in-apartment part, or the in-home part, or something else? Still, you would need at least a well-ventilated and reasonably fireproof garage type setting to operate welding equipment and a furnace, IMO.

So it was very reassuring when we saw you post this in clarification:

I’m in the process of renting a proper commercial tool shop. I’m going to have a look at it next week.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Oh for Pete's sake....

 

[sbrothy]

Well to be fair, it wasn't really clear what-all you were kidding about. This is one of my comments in the Mentor discussion thread about the reported post:


So it was very reassuring when we saw you post this in clarification:

I understand. I thought I’d established, from the previous posts that I understand the dangers. So to reiterate myself: I’m aware that I need to have both water- and foam, fire extinguishers in place. Access to an eyewashing station. Control over humidity and, however improbable if solvents are present, the risk of invisible and odourless creeping fire. Also, I’m not gonna do anything alone. Someone has to operate the extinguishers or call 911 (or 112 as the case may be). As I think I mentioned I’ve secured a course in how to assemble and operate the plasma torch and which gasses to use for TIG-welding. I realise I have a tendency to indecent humor. I’ll work on making my sarcasm more obvious.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

As someone suggested. Start small. You are skipping too many steps and are asking for an accident.

I did construction for 10 years...