Math What are the challenges faced by disillusioned math majors in finding a job?

[Zap]

That can actually be an advantage. Less tough, less complicated thought while working. Later, after work, time to study.

Yea. I was thinking the same in my current situation. The career type job I had required so much time. I was almost working 24/7, and it wasn't just moving boxes or washing dishes. I had a lot of stress and time constraints. A lot of deadlines and people to deal with. I had to be constantly thinking and trying to learn new things. I had meetings in the middle of the night. Colleagues texting at all hours of the day. I had almost no free time at all. There were days where I thought it was too much for me, but now I wish I had it back.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I have heard about companies like Revarture. You have to sign a 2 year contract and they offer you training and allegedly place you in a software company. The only thing that worries me about companies like that is that you are bonded labor you owe them money for the training I think its between 20,000 and 25,000 dollars and basically while they train you they pay you about the salary of working at a Wendys or Burger King.

Let's drill down into this a bit.

The Revarture model is essentially that they pay to train you up front, and then take the money it cost out of your salary for two years. They don't call it that, but that's how it works. It's not surprising that they take steps to keep people from getting trained and quitting.

As far as the Burger-King-salary, how much do you think someone should get paid while they are being trained and not earning money for the company?

This is clearly not for everyone - it's certainly not for me - but it could work for some people.

 

[sysprog]

In the '80s and '90s H. Ross Perot's EDS practiced that kind of despotry $-$ new employees had to sign a promissory note that made them owe $9,000 if they quit or got fired (LA Times article) $-$ and it was easy to get fired, even for such dubious reasons as off-hours deportment that wasn't quite adequately 'conservative', and the standard contract had a 3-year post-employment non-competition clause (AP News article) $-$ it was as close to an 'employee-owning' company as was practicable.

 

[Zap]

School is basically a two year contract, as well. I don't what you're expecting to make while "training" back in school. I was making below minimum wage because the funding for my GA was randomly cut. Horrible experience. I'm obviously a little bitter toward school.

 

[Zap]

I'm actually talking with revature right now. So, you train for about 3 months for minimum wage. Not the end of the world, then you will have to work for revature for two years. The first year is around 50k. The second year, you will receive a 15k salary increase. Then, after the two years, you have two years experience and can work for any company you want. With two years of software engineering experience, you will prob receive a dramatic salary increase. Surely, there are worse deals out there. I think they also offer relocation assistance. I'll prob find out more soon. It's kind of enticing me.

I'm kind of expecting to make around 50k, if I'm able to land another job. I doubt I'll be making 75k again, or any more than that. 75k was a pretty good offer. Don't know how I got that. This job I am currently praying for sounds really cool, but I sensed some hesitation with my salary expectations, which was 75k. So, pretty much anticipating a decrease in salary should I land a job.

 

[Paul Colby]

Many have written at length so if this is repeated advice, sorry. Number 1) Look for companies founded by mathematicians. Often companies will hire from pools of people of similar background. Number 2) Try aerospace. Often if you can fog a mirror and qualify for a clearance, you're in.

 

[Zap]

Another thought, people usually say to avoid start ups, because they say start ups look for expert talent. However, start ups are more likely to take chances. They may be more likely to give you a chance, even if you're not an expert. Some start ups may be in the growth phase and desperate to hire people, as well. There are some risks involved with joining a start up, but it's something I would consider.

 

[Zap]

I've run into a few job posts like this "You become an [Blank] employee from day one and are paid during the training period before placement onsite with our clients." Are you applying to entry level jobs that offer paid training such as this? The job I ended up getting put me through a 12 week paid training program.

Here is another one: "What you'll need: Bachelor's degree, a drive to learn, some experience with software or computer science, 1 month of paid training and 2 weeks of interview training. Our consultants, on average, make $120,000 after 2 years with us. We train, support, and continue to provide regular training so that you make progress in your career. Training is on-site and we will pay for airfare, housing, and you will be paid while training."

I'm sure your minor in computer science is all that would be needed to fulfill the requirements. How many of these types of training programs/jobs have you applied to?

I just found one offering 3 month fullstack development paid training program. I think it's also a two year contract, but you're not going to find paid training that's not going to have a contract along with it. The contract I signed was for 12 months after the training. I don't regret signing it. It got me a job. Usually those contracts are only broken if you quit or try to leave the job. You could just try to get fired or something if you really wanted to get out of it. I've heard of people doing that, but it sounds like an odd thing to do.

 

[Paul Colby]

There are some risks involved with joining a start up, but it's something I would consider.

I would consider that even if the startup fails (all too common) one has job experience to put on your next resume.

 

[Zap]

Starting to feel a bit defeated myself. I have an interview with Revature and for a data software engineer position next week. I'm starting to lean more and more toward the Revature thing. It seems a bit more secure during these times, and I need something relatively soon. I'm pretty confident I will be accepted into the program, if I decide to pursue it. I can see full stack dev training going a long way. Juggling job hunting with self training doesn't sound like a better alternative. I'd much rather be in a program following a curriculum making minimum wage for a short time with the high probability of a job afterward while maybe self training in a few things that interest me instead of possibly making minimum wage with no clear end in sight, job hunting and trying to focus on one of the myriad of things I could potentially teach myself that may or may not end up paying off.

 

[homeylova223]

Starting to feel a bit defeated myself. I have an interview with Revature and for a data software engineer position next week. I'm starting to lean more and more toward the Revature thing. It seems a bit more secure during these times, and I need something relatively soon. I'm pretty confident I will be accepted into the program, if I decide to pursue it. I can see full stack dev training going a long way. Juggling job hunting with self training doesn't sound like a better alternative. I'd much rather be in a program following a curriculum making minimum wage for a short time with the high probability of a job afterward while maybe self training in a few things that interest me instead of possibly making minimum wage with no clear end in sight, job hunting and trying to focus on one of the myriad of things I could potentially teach myself that may or may not end up paying off.

I get you I been out of college two year now. I decided to do this corona virus data entry job instead of the warehouse thing. But that is my life some life the only jobs I have had are tutoring and temp data entry jobs.
I do not know I think we math and physics major messed up and should have chosen computer science. Next week I have to choose classes for a new major I am planning to do and it hurts my heart to give money to these college professor who treat you like you are worthless and often do not respond to emails.

From what I read about revarture though they will give you training but you still have to pass the coding interview of whoever want to hire you and you have to sign a 2 year contact.
The way I see if you can pass the coding interview then you do not even need the company.

 

[Zap]

They send you a pretty comprehensive series of online courses to go through and then a study guide to prepare for the "coding" interview. The interview is not really a coding interview. You don't write any code. They will just ask you conceptual questions about programming that you got from the courses. There will probably be some syntax related questions on SQL, C# and Java, which again is covered in the courses. The two year contract is really the only sacrifice you're making. Whether it's worth it or not is up to you. I have the coding interview in a few days. I'm still not sure if I will join if I pass the interview, but I want to know more, and studying for that interview will help me with any other coding related interview, so that in itself is worth the effort to me. I mainly want to get a solid grasp on what the course material will be in the program and what kind of job I can expect to get afterwards. If it's legit full stack development, I may go through with it, because I see that paying off big time and perhaps being worth it. Depending on the legitness of the program as a whole, you might be able to think of it as a two year training program. I mentioned before I got my last job through a training program, and it worked out pretty well, up until corona virus.

My previous job was basically data entry, but I was assigned to develop Python code to automate it. What do you do in data entry?

 

[Zap]

Wait did you not get a GAship?

I entertain going back to school sometimes, but if I ever did, it wouldn't be for a job. I went to grad school specifically for a job, the job of GA LOL. You should have a GAship set up so you don't get into more debt. School should be fun, and it usually is fun. You shouldn't feel regret over going back. This could be a great opportunity for you. I wish you the best.

 

[homeylova223]

They send you a pretty comprehensive series of online courses to go through and then a study guide to prepare for the "coding" interview. The interview is not really a coding interview. You don't write any code. They will just ask you conceptual questions about programming that you got from the courses. There will probably be some syntax related questions on SQL, C# and Java, which again is covered in the courses. The two year contract is really the only sacrifice you're making. Whether it's worth it or not is up to you. I have the coding interview in a few days. I'm still not sure if I will join if I pass the interview, but I want to know more, and studying for that interview will help me with any other coding related interview, so that in itself is worth the effort to me. I mainly want to get a solid grasp on what the course material will be in the program and what kind of job I can expect to get afterwards. If it's legit full stack development, I may go through with it, because I see that paying off big time and perhaps being worth it. Depending on the legitness of the program as a whole, you might be able to think of it as a two year training program. I mentioned before I got my last job through a training program, and it worked out pretty well, up until corona virus.

My previous job was basically data entry, but I was assigned to develop Python code to automate it. What do you do in data entry?

Well I had 2 data entry one was putting like financial information about checks. My most recent one is putting people health information into a database like if they have covid19 and other illnesses. It is kind of long hour and somewhat boring.

 

[homeylova223]

Wait did you not get a GAship?

I entertain going back to school sometimes, but if I ever did, it wouldn't be for a job. I went to grad school specifically for a job, the job of GA LOL. You should have a GAship set up so you don't get into more debt. School should be fun, and it usually is fun. You shouldn't feel regret over going back. This could be a great opportunity for you. I wish you the best.

No they do not offer Graduate stipends to master student to the school I am going. With all this Coronavirus thing I think I will only do 1or 2 classes at a time so it will not be a huge amount of debt and I think I will just pay some of the classes upfront.

I think this semester I will take computational complexity which is described as

" Introduction to resource-bounded computations, central complexity-theoretic concepts such as complexity classes, reducibility, completeness, and intractability. "

and another class called scheduling theory. I think this a good start for operations research.

I got mixed feeling about returning to school but my return will be more of as part time student and I do not know if I will spend much time on campus and another thing is it will be hard to network because a lot of people are afraid of gathering together unfortunately.

 

[Zap]

You can still look for jobs/internships while you're at it. I noticed that physics majors like to help each other out. This is likely true for math majors. I was interviewed today by someone who also had a physics degree. I suspect that a significant factor for the existence of that interview was because we both happen to have physics degrees. Something to think about. Lots of ways to network virtually. I recommend reaching out to as many people as you can. No one wants to hear this, but one method of doing that is via mass resume spamming.

In my experience, professors weren't super helpful to me in the job hunt, but they will help you find an internship, and they will help you find funding for your grad studies. Generally, PhD students are first in line for grad funding via scholarships, TAships and RAships. I happened to have a good relationship with two department heads, so I was able to receive funding for my masters. If I wanted a TAship, I could get one. RA funding is a little more tricky, but doable if you can make yourself useful for some research project.

 

[NikolaTesla_69]

I am from Ireland and I am currently waiting on my Leaving Cert results (exam results that are used by colleges when making offers to prospective students). I want to study mathematics. Today I decided to take a look at the modules that the college offers (the college I am hoping to be accepted to) and I basically chose all the ones I would want to study during the the first four years as an undergraduate. However, I just need a second opinion (or multiple) from people such as yourselves who have experience in the field of mathematics as I am keen to know what modules would best aid me in finding a lucrative career i.e. highly desirable skills that would be of benefit in today's world and that are sought after by governments and other institutions. I have a list of all the modules and I have no problem making them available here. I am thinking about getting a PhD in either Mathematics or Physics but that is so far down the road so I just want to focus on the undergraduate aspect of college for now. Any help from an accredited user will be appreciated,

thanks.

 

[CrysPhys]

I am from Ireland and I am currently waiting on my Leaving Cert results (exam results that are used by colleges when making offers to prospective students). I want to study mathematics. Today I decided to take a look at the modules that the college offers (the college I am hoping to be accepted to) and I basically chose all the ones I would want to study during the the first four years as an undergraduate. However, I just need a second opinion (or multiple) from people such as yourselves who have experience in the field of mathematics as I am keen to know what modules would best aid me in finding a lucrative career i.e. highly desirable skills that would be of benefit in today's world and that are sought after by governments and other institutions. I have a list of all the modules and I have no problem making them available here. I am thinking about getting a PhD in either Mathematics or Physics but that is so far down the road so I just want to focus on the undergraduate aspect of college for now. Any help from an accredited user will be appreciated,

thanks.

If you want your personal scenario addressed, I highly recommend that you launch a separate thread. Tacking your scenario onto the end of an existing extra...ordinarily convoluted thread with 107 posts isn't probably going to get you the appropriate attention.

 

[NikolaTesla_69]

If you want your personal scenario addressed, I highly recommend that you launch a separate thread. Tacking your scenario onto the end of an existing extra...ordinarily convoluted thread with 107 posts isn't probably going to get you the appropriate attention.

I did that right after I posted this

 

[homeylova223]

I thought I would make an update.
I started my MS Industrial Degree. I been having mixed feelings. I am about halfway through but I been working full time and working on this degree part time. Recently I got a full time paid industrial engineer internship.

But now I am having mixed thoughts. As I mentioned I have 2 other degrees and it took me 2018-2021 to get this industrial engineer internship and I do not think they will give me a job offer.

I feel kind of sad because after this intern I will have to return to crappy jobs. And the college I go to charges higher tuition for online classes like 3600 compared to in person 2000 dollars. Working for 15 an hour at crappy jobs it takes a lot of effort to earn $3600.

I do know what to do its been 3 years since I graduated I done about close to half another master and I got so little to show for it and I am in my late 20s now.

I do not if college is even worth it, I got 6 more classes to graduate so that is 6*3600 almost 24000 dollar for online classes and I cannot do in person because my parents want me to work to pay the bills around the house and If I have to go in person it is tough to do a work schedule.

I really feel I made a huge mistake majoring in math and not doing engineering or comp sci.

 

[homeylova223]

I do not know what to do even I feel like sure I could take out 30,000 of student loans to finish the degree but then there is no chance of anyone hiring you. Everyone want 5+ of experience and no all sort of skills that you need an iq of 120 to learn that is why I am so skeptical about college. I have like 2 and 1/2 college degrees and next year I will probably have to work in nothing related to my degrees. There no entry level math job or stat job you either have a 120 iq and tons of skills in programming or you are doomed in this society. And silicon vally will probably replace a lot of low skills job soon with robots, the future just seems grim unless you are programming god who can code in python,c++, can sovlve complex problem in less than 5 minutes, has an iq of 120. I tried to improve my life but I think college I do not know I will not say it does not matter because it looks good on your resume but you also need all the prerequisites which are not even taught in college. You need experience to get a job but the only way to get experience is to to have a job.

I do not know if just to quit my degree and just study coding on my own, but I think the only reason I got my internship was because I was enrolled in college and so far it is the only "job" I had related to my degree.

 

[osilmag]

I would definitely finish any degree you are working on.

 

[StatGuy2000]

I thought I would make an update.
I started my MS Industrial Degree. I been having mixed feelings. I am about halfway through but I been working full time and working on this degree part time. Recently I got a full time paid industrial engineer internship.

But now I am having mixed thoughts. As I mentioned I have 2 other degrees and it took me 2018-2021 to get this industrial engineer internship and I do not think they will give me a job offer.

I feel kind of sad because after this intern I will have to return to crappy jobs. And the college I go to charges higher tuition for online classes like 3600 compared to in person 2000 dollars. Working for 15 an hour at crappy jobs it takes a lot of effort to earn $3600.

I do know what to do its been 3 years since I graduated I done about close to half another master and I got so little to show for it and I am in my late 20s now.

I do not if college is even worth it, I got 6 more classes to graduate so that is 6*3600 almost 24000 dollar for online classes and I cannot do in person because my parents want me to work to pay the bills around the house and If I have to go in person it is tough to do a work schedule.

I really feel I made a huge mistake majoring in math and not doing engineering or comp sci.

@homeylova223 , I'm frankly confused. You stated that you are halfway through your MS degree in industrial engineering, and that recently you have been hired for an industrial engineering internship.

Why do you think that you will have to return to crappy jobs?

Any jobs you've had can contribute to a path to a better career. And you do know that your industrial engineering internship is a stepping stone onto a better career, right? You can put your internship experience as work experience in your resume. You can use the connections you build in your internship for networking purposes, right?

Frankly, you are on a path to a better career. The only thing that is holding you back is your unwarranted pessimism/cynicism.

Get over it!

 

[homeylova223]

I think my post yesterday was too negative. I thought if you get an internship you would be offered a full time role at the end. But I do not think that will happen so I may have to get a "non college" degree job to pay for tuition.I think I made some progress from last year but its been somewhat slow progress

 

[osilmag]

There is no problem with having to take a job to pay for loans.

 

[Mark44]

I think my post yesterday was too negative. I thought if you get an internship you would be offered a full time role at the end. But I do not think that will happen so I may have to get a "non college" degree job to pay for tuition.I think I made some progress from last year but its been somewhat slow progress

I'm also a bit confused on a couple of details.
1) You mentioned a while back that you had two degrees. I gather that you have a BA or BS in mathematics, but I don't know what the other one is. This is a very long thread, of which I've read maybe half the posts, so you might have said what the other degree is in somewhere along the say.
2) Why do you believe that the company you're interning for won't offer you a position after the internship is over?
3) With a degree in mathematics, I think you would qualify to teach high school math. Is that something you've considered? For math-related other types of jobs, you probably need an advanced degree.

 

[homeylova223]

1. They are BS MATH, MS Math
2. I asked them but they not give me an answer. They said we will have more interns over the summer but I want a full time job. I wish I could talk to the hiring manager I sent him some emails but this is like a remote position.
3. I considered it. But I heard it is really tough dealing with teenagers, you have to be someone who can handle minors, I can teach math but you also have to keep order in the classes.

 

[sysprog]

1. They are BS MATH, MS Math
2. I asked them but they not give me an answer. They said we will have more interns over the summer but I want a full time job. I wish I could talk to the hiring manager I sent him some emails but this is like a remote position.
3. I considered it. But I heard it is really tough dealing with teenagers, you have to be someone who can handle minors, I can teach math but you also have to keep order in the classes.

In what area of Mathematics did you get your MS degree?

 

[homeylova223]

I got in computational science, it was things like solving linear equation but not by gauss elimination but by using sparse matrices.

 

[Mark44]

2. I asked them but they not give me an answer.

Consider asking again.
Have you received any feedback on your current internship? Either positive or negative?
Are you in regular contact with whoever is your manager?

With a master's degree in mathematics, you would be qualified to teach at a community college. Permanent full-time positions are usually hard to get, but many CCs need adjunct (temporary) instructors. The pay is better than minimum-wage jobs, and the students are usually more motivated than many of those in high school. Also, you would be getting experience that would enhance your resume.

The downside is that these are contract positions for a quarter or a semester at a time, and there is definitely no guarantee that they will lead to continued employment at that college, or to tenure-track positions. Another downside is that many part-time instructors have to get positions at different colleges to get enough classes to make ends meet.