News What Caused the Recent Bombings in London?

[Art]

London is now the latest victim of what appears to be suicide bombers.

 

[physics4ever]

Any idea who the terrorists were or why the attacks happened?
There was a terrorist attack in India a couple of days ago

 

[Art]

Any idea who the terrorists were or why the attacks happened?
There was a terrorist attack in India a couple of days ago

Very few facts available yet though it seems there were at least 6 separate blasts (3 on busses and 3 on tube trains) timed to coincide with the start of the G8 summit. There are fatalities but no indication at all yet of how many. Eyewitnesses say the busses were packed so it doesn't look good.
What happened in India. I haven't heard of that attack over here.

 

[siddharth]

Any idea who the terrorists were or why the attacks happened?
There was a terrorist attack in India a couple of days ago

Yes, but not of this magnitutde. The initial suspects appear to be Al-Qaeda. BBC says there are a number casualties and that the Underground and buses were attacked.

 

[marlon]

CNN says at least two people are dead

marlon

 

[siddharth]

What happened in India. I haven't heard of that attack over here.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1681433,00.html

 

[Art]

From Sky News

GROUP CLAIMS ATTACKS

A terror group linked to al Qaeda has claimed it carried out a series of terror attacks on London that have left a number of people dead and hundreds injured.


Two London hospital have reported a total of 185 wounded after a series of blasts hit locations across the city on buses and Tube stations.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said there was evidence of explosives at at least one of the six sites.

Scotland Yard has denied reports they were warned of an attack by Israel minutes before the blasts.

Two people have been confirmed dead and at least 90 people injured in the explosion at Aldgate Station

 

[zoobyshoe]

Tony Blair says he will skip the G8 to go and be in London.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Yep, he's out of there. Latest is six confirmed dead, 9 suspected. I imagine those figures are going up a fair bit. There are still people trapped in the underground.

 

[hypatia]

Attacking the transit, just reeks of Madrid.
May I add, that the London emergency crews are really doing a great job. Their practise, has paid off. What a nightmare, for such a fine city.

 

[Astronuc]

London is now the latest victim of what appears to be suicide bombers.

It's not clear that it is suicide bombers. Possibly, it is the result of bombs planted, as in Madrid. This is irrelevant at the moment - the net effect is the same regardless - innocent people have been killed or injured.

 

[alexandra]

I don't really know how to say this - I just want to express my empathy with people living through these terrible events. This act demonstrates the futility of senseless, ill-informed acts of sectarian violence and the damage that can result from such actions.

It is obvious that whichever group is responsible is acting on the basis of a flawed analysis: how can such acts possibly achieve their aims? All this violence is likely to achieve is to alienate ordinary British people and to result in tighter security regulations (that will impinge on domestic rights to privacy even further). Targetting civilians in politically motivated action is counter-productive (whatever the position of their country's leaders on this issue) - but an awareness of this fact depends on an in-depth knowledge of who/what 'the enemy' is (certainly not ordinary people) and a logical analysis of what action is required to change things.

This is precisely why it is important to study a situation and analyse it fully before taking any action.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

It is obvious that whichever group is responsible is acting on the basis of a flawed analysis: how can such acts possibly achieve their aims?

I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, their aims are to cause terror and death, and they have achieved it.

 

[Townsend]

I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, their aims are to cause terror and death, and they have achieved it.

echo...

 

[alexandra]

I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, their aims are to cause terror and death, and they have achieved it.

You're probably right, El Hombre - perhaps it's 'revenge' motivated. If their aim was to further the cause of justice and to bring about real change, it would have been ill-conceived. Again, though, this is an indication to me that they have not thought things through properly. Revenge is not something one should be aiming for - change is.

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, their aims are to cause terror and death, and they have achieved it.

Yes, but this approach will be seen as ineffective in the end. It will only lend credibility to the argument that Islamic fundamentalism cannot be reasoned with - it will result in the hammer being dropped on the fundamentalists with even more fury. Eventually global sympathy for the Islamic fundamentalists will turn into disgust, as in the case of the Chechnyan terrorists bombing that Russian school.

 

[alexandra]

Yes, but this approach will be seen as ineffective in the end. It will only lend credibility to the argument that Islamic fundamentalism cannot be reasoned with - it will result in the hammer being dropped on the fundamentalists with even more fury. Eventually global sympathy for the Islamic fundamentalists will turn into disgust, as in the case of the Chechnyan terrorists bombing that Russian school.

Yes, q - this is exactly what I meant. Thanks for elaborating...

 

[Astronuc]

This act demonstrates the futility of senseless, ill-informed acts of sectarian violence and the damage that can result from such actions.

Yes, indeed!

It is obvious that whichever group is responsible is acting on the basis of a flawed analysis: how can such acts possibly achieve their aims? All this violence is likely to achieve is to alienate ordinary British people and to result in tighter security regulations (that will impinge on domestic rights to privacy even further). Targetting civilians in politically motivated action is counter-productive (whatever the position of their country's leaders on this issue) - but an awareness of this fact depends on an in-depth knowledge of who/what 'the enemy' is (certainly not ordinary people) and a logical analysis of what action is required to change things.

This is precisely why it is important to study a situation and analyse it fully before taking any action.

A very rational analysis indeed. However, terrorists are not rational. They are blinded by hatred.

Unfortunately for most, a rational discussion is not feasible at the moment given the raw emotions being experienced.

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

Yes, q - this is exactly what I meant. Thanks for elaborating...

then we agree on at least one thing

 

[pattylou]

Their stated intent (if the group claiming responsibility is legitimately responsible) was to have troops withdrawn from Iraq.

They claimed they warned london to withdraw troops, and that therefore God forgives their actions.

They threaten that they are warning 2 other countries also.

I completely agree with Alexandra - this action will not inspire the removal of troops from Iraq.

 

[Art]

Yes, but this approach will be seen as ineffective in the end. It will only lend credibility to the argument that Islamic fundamentalism cannot be reasoned with - it will result in the hammer being dropped on the fundamentalists with even more fury. Eventually global sympathy for the Islamic fundamentalists will turn into disgust, as in the case of the Chechnyan terrorists bombing that Russian school.

You are undoubtedly correct in so far as the western world's view of radical Islam will become even more hardened but the fundamentalists are not trying to win their support anyway.
The only way ultimately to stop this kind of endless slaughter is to remove their reasons for being and remove the support these fanatics hold within the muslim communities / countries.
It is a terrific victory for these extremists if they can provoke the western powers into a massive retaliatory strike as invariably this results in the deaths and suffering of moderate muslims too. This in turn lends justification to the next attrocity they commit, provides new recruits and moves the moderate bloc of muslims further away from the western world and delivers them into the hands of the extremists.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Their stated intent (if the group claiming responsibility is legitimately responsible) was to have troops withdrawn from Iraq.

They claimed they warned london to withdraw troops, and that therefore God forgives their actions.

They threaten that they are warning 2 other countries also.

I completely agree with Alexandra - this action will not inspire the removal of troops from Iraq.

You might be right, though I think the motive is to punish, not to offer an ultimatum. In fact, I get the impression this is the end result of earlier ultimata: "We have repeatedly warned the British Government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahideen exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid."

 

[siddharth]

You are undoubtedly correct in so far as the western world's view of radical Islam will become even more hardened but the fundamentalists are not trying to win their support anyway.


It is a terrific victory for these extremists if they can provoke the western powers into a massive retaliatory strike as invariably this results in the deaths and suffering of moderate muslims too. This in turn lends justification to the next attrocity they commit, provides new recruits and moves the moderate bloc of muslims further away from the western world and delivers them into the hands of the extremists.

My thoughts exactly!
In my opinion, it is going to be impossible to win such a war against terror ONLY using strong retaliatory strikes. This would only enable the terrorists to gain more recruits. What should be done at a fundamental level is to provide a science oriented education. The reason that most extremists commit these terrible acts is because they really believe what they do is right. Once you teach people to question things, like how we do in science, then they will start questioning their irrational beliefs. Once that happens they are very much less likely to blow up innocent civilians over some idea they know might be wrong.
Of course, whatever I have said above maybe totally inaccurate, but I just thought that I should share my views.

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

My thoughts exactly!
In my opinion, it is going to be impossible to win such a war against terror ONLY using strong retaliatory strikes. This would only enable the terrorists to gain more recruits. What should be done at a fundamental level is to provide a science oriented education. The reason that most extremists commit these terrible acts is because they really believe what they do is right. Once you teach people to question things, like how we do in science, then they will start questioning their irrational beliefs. Once that happens they are very much less likely to blow up innocent civilians over some idea they know might be wrong.
Of course, whatever I have said above maybe totally inaccurate, but I just thought that I should share my views.

i disagree.

"educating" them will not stop terrorism. infact, most of the terrorist are quite skilled in science and engineering. blowing up a bridge, or something like 9/11, doesn't take place without significant engineering analysis.

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

You are undoubtedly correct in so far as the western world's view of radical Islam will become even more hardened but the fundamentalists are not trying to win their support anyway.
The only way ultimately to stop this kind of endless slaughter is to remove their reasons for being and remove the support these fanatics hold within the muslim communities / countries.
It is a terrific victory for these extremists if they can provoke the western powers into a massive retaliatory strike as invariably this results in the deaths and suffering of moderate muslims too. This in turn lends justification to the next attrocity they commit, provides new recruits and moves the moderate bloc of muslims further away from the western world and delivers them into the hands of the extremists.

Perhaps...or perhaps they may wake up and realize that their countries are living in the dark ages because of Islamic furvor. The Arab world lived in something of a Golden Age, much like ancient Greece or the classical Maya, until aggressive Islamic fundamentalism took over.

The reformation of christianity in Europe allowed enlightened thinking and human reasoning to take hold. If Islam were to reform itself, perhaps the same would happen with them.

If the Islamic states are weak, and are being exploited by the mighty powers of the world, it is because they let themselves fall into a position of weakness.

 

[siddharth]

i disagree.

"educating" them will not stop terrorism. infact, most of the terrorist are quite skilled in science and engineering. blowing up a bridge, or something like 9/11, doesn't take place without significant engineering analysis.

What engineering analysis is required to blow up a bridge other than to use the bomb? Similarly in 9/11 the terrorists only had to fly a plane.

Probably to make a bomb you require some analysis. But, what I think happens is that people like the terrorists learn to use the bombs without ever really understanding the physics behind it. For a really simple example, they could have been told, to connect this wire here and so on. But they may have not been taught about the flow of electrons across it.
The above statement is just an assumption, but considering that most of the terrorists are trained at places where scientific education is scarce, the above scenario (where people learn how to use stuff, but do not understand how it works) seems most likely to me. I cannot imagine how any person, other than one who blindly believes in what he is doing, can commit these acts.
I don't think they understand a lot of what they use but they are able to use it anyway.

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

What engineering analysis is required to blow up a bridge other than to use the bomb? Similarly in 9/11 the terrorists only had to fly a plane.

Probably to make a bomb you require some analysis. But, what I think happens is that people like the terrorists learn to use the bombs without ever really understanding the physics behind it. For a really simple example, they could have been told, to connect this wire here and so on. But they may have not been taught about the flow of electrons across it.
The above statement is just an assumption, but considering that most of the terrorists are trained at places where scientific education is scarce, the above scenario (where people learn how to use stuff, but do not understand how it works) seems most likely to me. I cannot imagine how any person, other than one who blindly believes in what he is doing, can commit these acts.
I don't think they understand a lot of what they use but they are able to use it anyway.

i do not believe that scientific education is scarce in the arab world at all. infact, most arabs who come and attend graduate schools here in the US are already highly educated in science.

and they did not just have to "fly a plane", taking down a building that was designed not to fall does not just happen. they obviously knew a thing or two about how the structural support system worked, where to hit, and exactly how much energy was required. they did not "get lucky". afterall, bin laden himself was an engineer.

science and engineering are important tools for them to conduct their terrorist attacks. doing a judo throw on a giant requires knowing something about judo. they may act like savages, but they are not savage in their technical abilities.

 

[siddharth]

First of all I did not say that scientific education is scarce in the Arab world. What I said was that the terrorists who were trained in their camps probably did not have access to an impartial scientific education.
If I remember, Bin Laden himself said on TV that he did not expect the WTC to come crashing down.
And calculating the energy required? That's a wrong statement because there is no relation between the "energy that was required" and the WTC falling down.
I am not saying that they are savages in their technical abilities. They do know how to use explosives and weapons. What I am trying to say is that they probably do not understand about the physics behind it.

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

And calculating the energy required? That's a wrong statement because there is no relation between the "energy that was required" and the WTC falling down.

ok, i was going to ignore this, but given this is a science forum..this is wrong. clearly the kinetic energy of the planes, and the potential (thermal) energy of the fuel they carried needed to overcome the material strength of however the building was supported. which floor(s) to hit? at what angle(s)? how much fuel will be available? at what optimal speed will the energy be distributed to the building (and minimize the pieces of the plane that would just blow through the building)? will the whole thing even work, or be worth it? if you think that this was not all planned by an engineer, well...

What I am trying to say is that they probably do not understand about the physics behind it.

And what I am trying to say is that they probably do. I cannot prove it, but neither can you. Do you honestly think that they do not have physicists working for them? You think they don't know anything about nuclear chemistry, or high-energy physics?

and (sadly) intellectual capital is cheap...hell, they probably don't even have to pay them.

 

[Astronuc]

In my opinion, it is going to be impossible to win such a war against terror ONLY using strong retaliatory strikes. This would only enable the terrorists to gain more recruits. What should be done at a fundamental level is to provide a science oriented education. The reason that most extremists commit these terrible acts is because they really believe what they do is right. Once you teach people to question things, like how we do in science, then they will start questioning their irrational beliefs. Once that happens they are very much less likely to blow up innocent civilians over some idea they know might be wrong.
Of course, whatever I have said above maybe totally inaccurate, but I just thought that I should share my views.

The causes of the hostilities of some Muslims and Arabs have long been in the making, and the solution is not simple.

Improving the quality of life and addressing the greivances of the disenfranchised are key elements. That however will take time, and unfortunately, it will not be effective for everyone. There are those who simply hate people outside of their family, clan, tribe, culture . . . . Hopefully their violent actions can be mitigated.

I advocate non-violence, even in the face of the violence done today. I would wish all of humanity to move away from violence, such that future generations do not have to suffer as we have.

Salaam - Shalom - Shanti - Peace.

 

[GENIERE]

Moderate Muslim, what’s that? I’ve not been able to find any unqualified condemnation by a Muslim cleric or government. Muslims will pay a high price for their tacit support of terrorism. A NYC muslim group wishes to purchase 50 or so acres of land in my very rural community for a youth/religious camp. I think they can fugedaboudit. There also seems to be a family run gas-station/food-store with some very obvious fire, electrical and sanitary code violations.


...

 

[alexandra]

Moderate Muslim, what’s that? I’ve not been able to find any unqualified condemnation by a Muslim cleric or government. Muslims will pay a high price for their tacit support of terrorism. A NYC muslim group wishes to purchase 50 or so acres of land in my very rural community for a youth/religious camp. I think they can fugedaboudit. There also seems to be a family run gas-station/food-store with some very obvious fire, electrical and sanitary code violations.


...

Geniere, do you realize that this statement is bigotted and simplistic, and that it is likely to incite hatred on ethnic/religious grounds? I guess you do - this is precisely what you are trying to do. As if all believers of the Muslim faith were terrorists! This statement is way out of line, in my opinion. It is racist.

 

[alexandra]

then we agree on at least one thing

Yes, I noticed that too As I have said before (several times) on these discussion boards, I don't argue against individuals, and I have nothing personal against anyone in particular - I simply honestly state my reasoned opinions about issues being discussed. Sometimes this results in my agreeing with opinions expressed by people who are ordinarily my 'opponents'. Why, once I even agreed with something Pengwuino posted (no-one was more surprised than I).

 

[Anttech]

Moderate Muslim, what’s that? I’ve not been able to find any unqualified condemnation by a Muslim cleric or government. Muslims will pay a high price for their tacit support of terrorism. A NYC muslim group wishes to purchase 50 or so acres of land in my very rural community for a youth/religious camp. I think they can fugedaboudit. There also seems to be a family run gas-station/food-store with some very obvious fire, electrical and sanitary code violations.

get a grip! go read the karan, and understand Islam before painting every single muslism with the same brush... They are NOT all terrorists... Many of them are peace loving people, who came to the west/USA to find a better life... EXACTLY like your forefathers did...

 

[Art]

Why, once I even agreed with something Pengwuino posted (no-one was more surprised than I).

Obviously on that occasion you were wrong jk Penqwuino

 

[Townsend]

Obviously on tha occasion you were wrong jk Penqwuino

Whats funny is that you're not joking, just trolling.

Oh, by the way...I was only joking there Art

 

[klusener]

All Muslims aren't like the people who perpetrate violent attacks. But what I find the media doing again and again during these kinds of events is connect Islam with terrorism and they continue to hound it into the public's mind, until there is no difference between the two. When the IRA strikes somewhere or a similar individual or group attacks some place, why don't we hear "Christian terrorists" in the media?

 

[Astronuc]

Moderate Muslim, what’s that? I’ve not been able to find any unqualified condemnation by a Muslim cleric or government.

ADC Strongly Condemns Bombings in London

ADC Press Release
July 7, 2005

Washington, DC, The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) is horrified by the series of bombings that rocked London's public transportation earlier today. At this time, it is being reported that there are 2 fatalities and more than 200 casualties.

Information as to who is responsible for these latest bombings in London has yet to be confirmed. Regardless of the identity of the perpetrators of this terrible crime, ADC condemns this heinous act in the strongest possible terms. ADC urges the public and the media to proceed with caution.

ADC believes that the best plan of action to such an appalling attack is for all Americans to come together and offer support to the British people.

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=9502

Muslims in the UK also joined in condemning the attacks. The British Muslim Forum said: "Our hearts go out to all those who have been affected and we express our sympathy to their families and friends.

Ahmed Versi, editor of The Muslim News, said: "We unequivocally condemn these terrorist attacks. We express our deep condolences to the families, relatives and friends of the victims."

If one bothers to look, one will find that many Muslims do condemn terrorism, including todays events.

and http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=9500

 

[Mattius_]

Just wanted to give empathy to the people of the UK. The US is with you.

 

[russ_watters]

The only way ultimately to stop this kind of endless slaughter is to remove their reasons for being and remove the support these fanatics hold within the muslim communities / countries.

Trouble is, "their reasons for being" include our very existence (see: Bin Laden's "open letter" to the west), so unless we decide to commit mass-suicide, we'll never remove their motivation.

Eliminating the support in Muslim communitied may be possible, but it too is extremely difficult. Nation-scale religious fanaticism is so ingraned in some societies, its extrordinarily difficult to eradicate. About the only thing that can do it from the outside is spreading information to counter the propaganda that the general public of such countries are being fed. Some countries are starting to turn it around (Iran) but it is a very slow process.

From the inside, prosperity can do it - people who are prosperous have no need to look for scapegoats to blame for their situation. But again, how do you make a corrupt, criminal dictatorship prosperous?

One X-factor is the progress being made on ME peace, with Israel pulling out of many of its occupied territories. There is little more that can be done to show a true commitment to peace than fighting with your own citizens in the name of international peace. We'll just have to wait and see if the PA makes a reciprocal gesture and if the people on both sides respond to the magnitude of this gesture. IMO, real peace between the Islamic world and the west needs to start in Israel anyway.

 

[Art]

Moderate Muslim, what’s that? ...

London is one of the most culturally diverse cities in the world. Without a doubt some of the casualities of this attack will be muslims so your assertion is as ridiculous as it is offensive.

 

[Astronuc]

Iran and Syria, both on Washington's list of states sponsoring terrorism, joined an unbroken chorus of condemnation, as did the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas and Lebanon's Shi'ite Muslim Hizbollah guerrillas.

Perhaps it is just a formality. Nevertheless, they are now on record as condemning the terrorist attacks.

from http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050707/wl_nm/security_britain_world_dc

 

[ron damon]

Why Europe let's in so many Muslim [edited] is really baffling. What are they trying to accomplish? Wherever Muslims are you find terrorist activity and conflict, be it in the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, India, Israel, Russia, Bosnia, Spain... Every country in Europe with a large Muslim community has been utterly incapable of assimilating them: in Sweden they control large cities where even emergency services are unable to enter without police escort, in the Netherlands 40% live off welfare, murder artists and burn churches, in France they riot seasonally and very vocally express their hatred for their host nation. If Muslims want to keep on living in the middle ages, then do so in your own vast territories. Don't come to my West.

Before you call me "racist", the above comes from someone who naively, but sincerely, supported the Iraq invasion in the hopes of modernizing the middle east in the fashion of the successful work done in Japan and Korea, and who passionately and publicly supported the entry of Turkey into the EU.

And to the West. We DESPERATELY need to find alternative sources of energy. The only way to fix the Muslim world is to get the F*CK out of there and erect a wall to keep us separated until the modern era dawns upon them.

 

[Informal Logic]

At least 37 dead, 700 injured at this time... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8496611/
I express my deepest sympathy to the British. I agree that this senseless attack on civilians by terrorists will achieve nothing but condemnation, including from the Islamic community. After a bombing within Saudi Arabia, officials decided to leave the building in ruins as a daily reminder to the people of the destruction caused by terrorism.

It seems this was done by a splinter group, but shows that the problem not only is growing, but may become more volatile.

Perhaps...or perhaps they may wake up and realize that their countries are living in the dark ages because of Islamic furvor. The Arab world lived in something of a Golden Age, much like ancient Greece or the classical Maya, until aggressive Islamic fundamentalism took over.

The reformation of christianity in Europe allowed enlightened thinking and human reasoning to take hold. If Islam were to reform itself, perhaps the same would happen with them.

If the Islamic states are weak, and are being exploited by the mighty powers of the world, it is because they let themselves fall into a position of weakness.

Religion, and in particular Christianity, has never encouraged enlightened thinking. You mention Europe, and might I suggest you review history during the Dark Ages. Those who pursued science were considered heretics, and only the monks were allowed education and to be literate. And then shall we discuss the crusades?

The root of terrorism is due to US bias toward Israel, lack of sensitivity toward Islam and holy sites, etc., even racism toward Arabs, interference in the Middle East in the pursuit of oil, encroachment of Western culture on their society, etc. You cannot stop terrorism with military force. You must address the roots of hatred. This is very simple and clear, yet the US and many Americans refuse to see it.

 

[russ_watters]

get a grip! go read the karan, and understand Islam before painting every single muslism with the same brush...

Unfortunately, after I read the Koran, it confirmed the worst of the stereotypes I'd heard. Until then, I tried to keep an open mind in the way you suggest. After I read it - while can see why it's possible to be a peacful muslim, I also can see why extremism can easily come from that book.

 

[Art]

Unfortunately, after I read the Koran, it confirmed the worst of the stereotypes I'd heard. Until then, I tried to keep an open mind in the way you suggest. After I read it - while can see why it's possible to be a peacful muslim, I also can see why extremism can easily come from that book.

Have you ever read the 'old testament' of the Bible?

 

[Townsend]

Unfortunately, after I read the Koran, it confirmed the worst of the stereotypes I'd heard. Until then, I tried to keep an open mind in the way you suggest. After I read it - while can see why it's possible to be a peacful muslim, I also can see why extremism can easily come from that book.

Yes but russ you still need to keep an open mind. You cannot condemn an entire religion because of this. People have the right to practice whatever religion they choose even if that religion breeds terrorism. Its like the KKK, it is a loathsome organization but never the less people have a right to be a part of the KKK if they so choose.

The best we can do is to try and focus on the positive aspects of the Islamic religion and try to teach people that human rights should always come first. Perhaps we need to try to give a different viewpoint on the Islamic religion.

Regards

 

[Anttech]

Wherever Muslims are you find terrorist activity and conflict, be it in the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, India, Israel, Russia, Bosnia, Spain...

total bull****e...

in the Netherlands 40% live off welfare, murder artists and burn churches, in France they riot seasonally and very vocally express their hatred for their host nation

judging by your retoric you are from USA... FAR more people are murdered in your country by Christians than are murdered in Europe by Muslims.. You have no capacity to understand that 'your country' kills Far more people waging war in foreign lands than Muslims do...

Don't come to my West.

Its not 'your west'... It would have been your west if Nazi Germany won the second world war! But thank god they didnt...

Bosnia

do you have any idea what actually happened in the former Yougosalvia... The Serbians (Christian) tried to kill all the Bosinans (Mulsim)

Emotions are running high right now, and I'll tell you I am Glad to have many British Pakistaini Afgain Irainian Iraqi friends... They bring a sense of culture from the cradles of civalisation and in the most part live in harmony with the Christians in the UK...

 

[Townsend]

They bring a sense of culture from the cradles of civalisation and in the most part live in harmony with the Christians in the UK...

This is the kind of thing that brings hope into the world.

I might be naive but I still think that world peace is possible. And I don't mean a bunch of hippies (no offense to the hippies) running around smoking pot or some fairy tale utopia either. I mean everyone having mutual respect for each other enough so that we don’t blow each other off the face of the earth.

However, I know enough to realize that such a dream is a long ways off. Until that day comes terrorism needs to be kept in check. I know that the British will make the right decision and I know that the US will back them up 100 percent as they have done for us.

 

[russ_watters]

Have you ever read the 'old testament' of the Bible?

Yes, I have. They don't compare.