What causes this curious light phenomenon? (video inside)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a light phenomenon observed with a spinning electric fan, where patterns resembling magnetic lines appear depending on the viewer's perspective. Participants explore the physical explanations for this effect, considering various light sources and visual interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the observed patterns are due to the overlapping spokes of the fan's guards as viewed from different angles.
  • Others propose that the flicker from certain light sources, such as fluorescent or LED lights, may create a strobe effect that contributes to the phenomenon.
  • A few participants mention the Moiré effect as a potential explanation, drawing parallels to similar patterns seen in other contexts, such as through mesh screens or while driving past structures with vertical rods.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of the fan being operational to observe the effect, as the blades obscure the back guard when stationary.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of stroboscopic interaction between the fan blades and the light source, similar to visual effects seen in media.
  • Historical observations of similar patterns from the past are shared, linking them to personal experiences and cultural references.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the cause of the observed phenomenon. While some agree on the Moiré effect being a possible explanation, others raise questions about the conditions under which the effect is observed, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the phenomenon may depend on specific conditions such as the type of light source used and the movement of the viewer's head. There are also mentions of potential distractions that could affect the observation of the effect.

Nantes
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Here is the video:

What is the physical explanation to why I see the light make patterns strikingly similar to magnetic lines on that spinning electric fan, depending on how I move the point of view? (the phenomenon happens equally to the naked eye and to the camera).
 
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Can you reproduce the effect using a purely incandescent light source?

Many light sources such as fluorescent and LED have inherent "flicker" due to how their power supplies are constructed. The frequency of the flicker acts as a strobe effect for rotating objects, and you get what is essentially a "rolling shutter" effect.
 
It's just where the spokes of the front and back guards overlap from your point of view. Pause the video and you'll see it.
 
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Nantes said:
What is the physical explanation to why I see the light make patterns strikingly similar to magnetic lines on that spinning electric fan, depending on how I move the point of view?

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moiré_pattern
500px-Moire_Lines.svg.png
 
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Drakkith said:
It's just where the spokes of the front and back guards overlap from your point of view. Pause the video and you'll see it.

To prove Drakkith's explanation, we can try removing the blades. Then we will be able to see all parts of the front and back guards. If we now set the fan to oscillate (or if we move our head from side to side), the same effect should happen.

If confirmed, this is an example of a Moire effect.
 
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A.T. said:

Yes, exactly ! this can be reproduced easily with sets of crossing lines

Looking out one of my home windows through a fine flyscreen mesh, and looking beyond to a
outdoor aircon unit on my neighbour's house, I see similar patterns as my move my
head sideways as the lines on the flyscreen and on the aircon grill interact
 
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Swamp Thing said:
If confirmed, this is an example of a Moire effect.
Presumably the OP first saw this effect and then tried to video it. Does he say he saw the effect with the fan turned off? Did it happen with natural light (from a window)?
I am sure those two factors are distractions. @A.T. 's quoted image demonstrates the pattern without introducing any form of flicker. The OP should do some experimenting with fabrics, combs etc. to produce Moiré patterns in other situations.

But his point about 'Magnetic lines of flux' should also be addressed. Any volunteers?
 
You see the same Moiré fringe effect when driving and you approach a bridge with handrails held by vertical rods (say, 1 inch in diameter, 6 inches apart) crossing the road.

The near side rods and the far side rods "bunch together" and you see horizontally moving bands of brightness and darkness.

070309-moire-a5-a5-upward-movement.gif
 
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sophiecentaur said:
Does he say he saw the effect with the fan turned off?
The fan needs to be running, I believe. Otherwise, the blades will hide the back guard. With the blades running, the back guard flashes onto the retina often enough that its image is able to (spatially) interfere with the front guard's image.
 
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  • #10
Frodo said:
You see the same Moiré fringe effect when driving and you approach a bridge with handrails held by vertical rods crossing the road.
It's interest that the perceived rate of movement is not what you'd expect at that distance - a sort of false parallax effect - and it grabs the attention by peripheral vision. (Your instinct tells you it could be a large predator.)
 
  • #11
It is almost certainly because the fan casing is rotating about a vertical axis causing the wires on the front to interact differently with the wires at the back depending on the angle.

The back wires sometimes align side-by-side with the front wires, blocking 'two wire widths of light' and causing a "dark" area. Sometimes they align perfectly one in front of the other, blocking only 'one wire widths of light' so the area appears "light". As the back wires are further from the eye than the front wires they subtend different angles to the eye causing the effect. The curved shape of the wires gives rise to the curved shape of the Moire fringes.

Stopping the fan casing from rotating will prove the matter - it should stop ... unless you move your head.

Remove the fan blade completely but allow the fan casing to rotate and it will still happen.

There is a second potential effect of stroboscopic interaction between the fan blades and the electric light source similar to why wheels on vehicles seem stop or rotate backwards on TV and films.

A third effect is the curved fan blades appearing to merge with the wires when the wires become "close to parallel" with the fan blade edges.
 
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  • #12
When I was a young teenager in 1968-9, I remember seeing this pattern, and it reminded me of op-art, like in the opening of the Green Hornet, TV show. I also remember this pattern was seen in a box of stationery paper. The box a a cover with a "target" of perhaps 50-60 concentric dark circles. What was slipped over the box was a plastic cover, open at the two ends that was slipped over the box. The plastic cover that went over the side of the box with the concentric circles was a transparent overlay of another "target" of 50 to 60 concentric dark circles. The effect of sliding the plastic cover over the box to close the stationery would show the moving pattern of "bee" bodies, that you see in the fan. In the common parlance of young teens in 1968-9, as I was a cohort of this age group, was: This was really groovy. Hope this helps
 

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