What could be causing a file from 2011 to be undeletable?

[mathman]

Recently I discovered a file (dated Feb. 13, 2011, time 8:07 P.M. (EST)) that cannot be deleted and does not respond to any commands, such as move, rename, open, etc. I have "unlocker assistant", but it doesn't work here.

The date stamp corresponds to a time when I was surfing Physics Forum and "physics form" is part of the file name. From what I was able to deduce I was in the General Math forum at that time. I believe I was looking at a question where there was a link to another file, which had to opened by "Open Office", so I presume I was looking at the linked file. Since then, that particular question no longer appears in the forum.

Any suggestions - I just want to get rid of it.

 

[MATLABdude]

Is this in Windows, Linux, or OS X? In general, you may be able to get rid of the file by clearing your cache (and forms, and downloaded files, etc. in whichever browser it is that you use (sorry for the broad stroke, but there's not so much to work with here!) If it persists, you may have to use the CS solution (i.e. reboot the machine, and then try again--sometimes you end up with odd sharing / file locking violations that prevent files from being touched).

 

[Borg]

If you're on Windows and really desperate to delete it, you could try booting up in Safe Mode. The file is probably being used by something that is always running in the background. Booting in Safe Mode will keep them from starting so that they can't grab and hold the files.

 

[Jobrag]

If you are running windows, get a LINUX boot disc, start in LINUX remove the file and then restart in windows.

 

[mathman]

My operating system is Windows XP. In general if a file is locked because something is using it, "unlocker assistant" will handle it. In this case, when trying to do anything with the file, the computer acts as if it is not there. For example, "properties" gives me a complete blank, including 0 file length, although windows explorer gives it a length.

 

[Borg]

My operating system is Windows XP. In general if a file is locked because something is using it, "unlocker assistant" will handle it. In this case, when trying to do anything with the file, the computer acts as if it is not there. For example, "properties" gives me a complete blank, including 0 file length, although windows explorer gives it a length.

Ah. A mystery file. Have you tried creating a file with the same name and then try to delete it? I have seen the OS get confused on a rare occasion thinking that a file is there when it isn't. The other thing that I would do is to search the registry to see if it's referenced there.

 

[rcgldr]

Try logging in as a different user and deleting the file. On my system, I have multiple hard drives, with a second instance of Windows installed on one of of the "other" hard drives. I boot into that for doing backups and if needed restores of the primary OS partitions. The second OS could also be used to delete files that the primary OS won't delete.

 

[JaredJames]

I've had this problem before. Windows can't touch it and sometimes throws up errors for it.

The only way to remove it was to boot in Linux. Even a fresh install of Windows couldn't touch it.

 

[mathman]

I tried safe mode and I got the same result (file can't be touched). I have no desire to do anything drastic, so if there is no relatively easy solution, I'll just leave it there.

 

[JaredJames]

I tried safe mode and I got the same result (file can't be touched). I have no desire to do anything drastic, so if there is no relatively easy solution, I'll just leave it there.

Download the ubuntu image from their website (main page).

Burn it to disc and boot from it. You can try out the OS without installing it, run it from the disc.

Using this you can see your windows files and delete it.

This should take an hour tops and most of that is because of downloading (20 minutes without download time).

 

[Chronos]

Try system restore. Use a restore point before the problem occured. This is effective against most viruses. I use two disc drives to prevent cross contamination of restore points. A worst case solution is to reformat your hard drive. Again, you need a second hard drive to make it less painful. Copy your non-system files you wish to save to the other drive. i have yet to hear of a bug that can't be killed that way, but, you need a second drive for this fix.

 

[JaredJames]

This is effective against most viruses.

Unless the virus implants itself in there, which a lot of the new ones do.

Also, system restore doesn't affect your personal files. So it probably wouldn't touch this folder.

 

[mathman]

File has path C:\Documents and Settings\Herb\Local Settings\Temp\(file name)

I'm Herb

 

[JaredJames]

File has path C:\Documents and Settings\Herb\Local Settings\Temp\(file name)

I'm Herb

The file path is meaningless to us. You really need to try some of the solutions offered.

Again, I recommend you try the Linux boot disc method.

 

[Borg]

File has path C:\Documents and Settings\Herb\Local Settings\Temp\(file name)

I'm Herb

Just curious. What's the filename? Have you Googled it?

 

[rcgldr]

File has path C:\Documents and Settings\Herb\Local Settings\Temp\(file name)

In that case, logging on as another admistrator user should allow you to delete any files related to "Herb".

 

[Pattonias]

Have you tried using disk clean up? It should have an option to clean the Temp folder. If it doesn't need it in there, it will delete it. Is there any particular reason you need to delete it?

It may be the internet cache for that user, you could clear the cache in the browser and that may delete all the content of the file/folder.

 

[mathman]

In that case, logging on as another admistrator user should allow you to delete any files related to "Herb".

When I tried the safe mode, I said I was the administrator, but it didn't do any good.

 

[JaredJames]

When I tried the safe mode, I said I was the administrator, but it didn't do any good.

Seriously, have you tried the boot disc? If the boot disc for Linux can't get rid of it you'll have to format it.

 

[caffenta]

Seriously, have you tried the boot disc? If the boot disc for Linux can't get rid of it you'll have to format it.

Or he could just forget about the file and go skiing or something. As far as I can tell from reading the thread, the file isn't causing any trouble. If it ain't broke, yada yada...

 

[hamster143]

Scan the disk for errors.

 

[JaredJames]

Or he could just forget about the file and go skiing or something. As far as I can tell from reading the thread, the file isn't causing any trouble. If it ain't broke, yada yada...

If it's there and can't be deleted, it most certainly is broke (assuming he's gone down the usual routes to check it isn't being used - which I doubt seeing as he doesn't seem to be trying the solutions posted).

 

[Pattonias]

I would point out that the most likely reason that he can't delete the file is that it is being used by a program from boot. If he uses a boot-drive to kill it which is almost guaranteed to work, if it hasn't been carved into his hard disk by tiny chisel wielding gnomes, there is the possibility he will stop something from working.

Since it is located in his TEMP folder, that leads me to think that it is the cache for something. Most likely the web-browser. If he should delete that then it will just create a new one when he starts up the browser again.

 

[JaredJames]

Since it is located in his TEMP folder, that leads me to think that it is the cache for something. Most likely the web-browser. If he should delete that then it will just create a new one when he starts up the browser again.

That's actually why I'm not bothered about it being deleted via a more 'forceful' method.

Any other location outside the TEMP folder I'd be concerned.

 

[Pattonias]

Good point. Do you have an XP PC jared?

I tried following the string on W7, but it doesn't relate. You would think it would still work on most windows machines since they usually don't change up the structure that much between upgrades. Could you find a similar location on your own PC?

 

[JaredJames]

I use Ubuntu.

It's a hidden folder, so you may need to check for that.

I used Windows 7 for a while and if I remember correctly the equivalent on it would be something like: "C:\Users\Herb\Appdata\Local"

Follow that path and it should point you in the right direction. Still hidden though so enable that.

XP does have the folder indicated by the OP (the local settings one that is), so that in itself isn't a problem.

 

[Pattonias]

I managed to find one of my Temp folders in the way you described, I was just hoping to find it using the same path. Maybe I can find it that way on a school machine. I figured if I could find it, I may be able to determine which programs are using that temp folder.

On my machine at home, my temp folder has been moved to a RAM disk and I generally direct all my temp files/folders to that one drive.

 

[mathman]

If it's there and can't be deleted, it most certainly is broke (assuming he's gone down the usual routes to check it isn't being used - which I doubt seeing as he doesn't seem to be trying the solutions posted).

Just to clarify some things. The file is date and time stamped, so I know exactly when it happened and what I was doing (I was in the math forum of physicsforum). I did try safe mode, which didn't work. I don't have Linux and I am wary of starting with another operating system. I am also very reluctant to do a complete cleanup of my disk.

I have a program called unlocker assistant, which will in all cases (except this one) point out when a file is in use by another program so that it can't be deleted. However unlocker assistant can delete it when I want to. For the particular file under discussion, unlocker assistant doesn't respond at all.

 

[JaredJames]

Why are you worried about booting another OS? Linux runs straight from the CD so you don't have to install it.

Put it in, remove the file, shut down, job done.

 

[Pattonias]

I agree, the Linux method is guaranteed to fix it, and you don't have to wipe your drive. I think on the boot screen it will say "try out linux" or something to that effect and you can run it without installing it on your hard disk.

 

[JaredJames]

I agree, the Linux method is guaranteed to fix it, and you don't have to wipe your drive. I think on the boot screen it will say "try out linux" or something to that effect and you can run it without installing it on your hard disk.

Correct.

 

[hamster143]

I agree, the Linux method is guaranteed to fix it, and you don't have to wipe your drive. I think on the boot screen it will say "try out linux" or something to that effect and you can run it without installing it on your hard disk.

The Linux method may work as far as it will remove the file, but you're just asking for more problems down the road. The underlying issue is, evidently, the filesystem corruption, and that's what you have to fix in order to delete the file properly. Going in with a third-party filesystem driver and forcibly removing it will only increase the corruption.

 

[JaredJames]

The Linux method may work as far as it will remove the file, but you're just asking for more problems down the road. The underlying issue is, evidently, the filesystem corruption, and that's what you have to fix in order to delete the file properly. Going in with a third-party filesystem driver and forcibly removing it will only increase the corruption.

I'm not denying it could be down to a larger problem, but it's only one file.

One error is not a sign of file system corruption. It's a glitch in the registry at best.

I've had windows 'forget' about files a number of times, it's not a sign of a major issue and only required the Linux method to solve - I checked the registry with a number of systems for any problems and none were found. Frankly, given the number of files being dealt with it's really not surprising that the OS has a glitch like this every now and then.

It doesn't matter what software you use to wipe out the file. Otherwise that would mean plugging my external hard drive initially used with windows into my linux machine is dangerous and risks severe corruption.

Technically, you're not forcibly removing the file. You're doing a normal delete operation. The only risk involved is ensuring you're not removing a required windows file.

 

[mathman]

I don't have a linux CD. Is there a source online?

 

[hamster143]

I'm not denying it could be down to a larger problem, but it's only one file.

One error is not a sign of file system corruption. It's a glitch in the registry at best.

I've had windows 'forget' about files a number of times, it's not a sign of a major issue and only required the Linux method to solve - I checked the registry with a number of systems for any problems and none were found. Frankly, given the number of files being dealt with it's really not surprising that the OS has a glitch like this every now and then.

It doesn't matter what software you use to wipe out the file. Otherwise that would mean plugging my external hard drive initially used with windows into my linux machine is dangerous and risks severe corruption.

Technically, you're not forcibly removing the file. You're doing a normal delete operation. The only risk involved is ensuring you're not removing a required windows file.

Registry has absolutely nothing to do with it. If the file is not in use, but you still can't delete it or even access its properties, something must be wrong with the file system.

It does not matter what software you use, as long as the file system is OK. If you expect to see two different outcomes from the delete operation in Windows and in Linux, then evidently the file system is not OK, but maybe the Linux driver handles abnormal situations in a different way from the Windows driver.

Here's a simple analogy. You want to get a book off the book shelf. In the normal circumstances, books stand next to each other and can be pulled individually, and anyone can take any book without any problems.

You send your servant to that book shelf and he comes back and says "I can't get it easily, other books are in the way". Your solution is to find a more obedient servant. He'll bring you the book, but possibly at the expense of creating a big pile of books on the floor (maybe books were stacked vertically for some reason, and the book you wanted was at the bottom of the stack.) The correct solution is to send a servant to put the books in order.

 

[hamster143]

I don't have a linux CD. Is there a source online?

You can download a bootable USB drive with Linux on it from ubuntu.org.

 

[caffenta]

Registry has absolutely nothing to do with it. If the file is not in use, but you still can't delete it or even access its properties, something must be wrong with the file system.

"If the file is not in use" is a big if. There is no way of easily telling if it is indeed in use, except for the fact that you cannot delete/move it. Not being able to see file properties is not necessarily a file system corruption. The program that has a lock on the file can deny any access to it, including property queries.

I agree with the rest of your post. If there is indeed a file system corruption, trying to forcibly delete it with Linux is only asking for trouble. A better way is to let Windows do a filesystem scan during the boot sequence.

But it really all comes down to this: is the file actually a problem? Or is it just some irrational need to delete it. If it's not a problem, forget about the file.

 

[hamster143]

There is no way of easily telling if it is indeed in use, except for the fact that you cannot delete/move it. Not being able to see file properties is not necessarily a file system corruption.

The OP stated that the file is located in the temp folder and that he was unable to delete it in safe mode. That's a strong indication that the file is not in use.

 

[caffenta]

The OP stated that the file is located in the temp folder and that he was unable to delete it in safe mode. That's a strong indication that the file is not in use.

Not necessarily. I have a zero-length file in my temp folder that can't be deleted (it's a debug log). I'm using Win7, but XP is not that different. If I boot in safe mode and log on as myself, I still can't delete it. If I log on as another user with administrator privileges, I can delete the file. But guess what? The file is right back when I reboot and log on under my normal account because the program recreated it.

I'm not sure the OP has tried the "log on as an another administrator" method that rcgldr suggested:

in that case, logging on as another administrator user should allow you to delete any files related to "herb" .

when i tried the safe mode, i said i was the administrator, but it didn't do any good.

Being an administrator doesn't mean that he was logged on as another administrator.

 

[JaredJames]

You send your servant to that book shelf and he comes back and says "I can't get it easily, other books are in the way".

As has been pointed out before, the file can appear to be in use when it isn't. So you can't do anything with it.

I've had it a number of times where a program has an error (whether internal or simply crashes - even no error appearing to exist) and it has maintained file locks even though the file is no longer in use.

There was a common error I kept having with media player where the player would be closed but the files were untouchable - the error was it was showing as media player still using them, even after checking it wasn't running anywhere.

Given it's the temp folder and it's been checked it isn't running, this to me would be the most likely cause.

As I said before, given its location (with the nature of this folders use) it doesn't seem to be a likely file system corruption. Again, anywhere else and I'd be questioning it or with a number of instances within the temp folder.

When you diagnose the fault you have to take these factors into account.

Here is a site outlining everything we've discussed here, but they've also mentioned using the prompt: http://winhlp.com/node/39

 

[mathman]

Update on bad file. The name of the file seems to be far too long (over 150 characters) to be handled. Furthermore the "type" has about 40 characters. I suspect these factors are the cause of the problem, and the file itself is probably not corrupted.

 

[mathman]

I raised the same question on another forum and after many back and forths someone was able to supply a very simple solution that worked! The obstacle to deleting the file was that its name L.asp* has far too many characters.

The essence was to use the concept of a virtual folder as follows. Here I am displaying the original recipe and my changes.

subst P: "c:\Documents and Settings\Herb\Local Settings\Temp"
P:
attrib -r -a -s -h P:\filestart*.ext (my note - I did not need this step)
del filestart*.ext (my note - del L.asp*)
C:
subst P: /d

 

[zalathel]

Try with LongPathTool. I should help in your case, it helped me in a similar problem :)