What does it mean for the Hamiltonian to not be bounded?

In summary, the authors state that if the Dirac field is quantized using commutation relations instead of anticommutation relations, the resulting Hamiltonian (as shown in Peskin and Schroeder) is not bounded below. This means that, by creating more and more particles using the operator ##b^\dagger##, the energy can be lowered indefinitely. However, to obtain a bounded and physically meaningful Hamiltonian, the Dirac field must be quantized as fermions, which is a consequence of the spin-statistics theorem. For further details, see Weinberg's Quantum Theory of Fields, Vol. 1.
  • #1
Turbotanten
3
0
If we were to quantize the Dirac field using commutation relations instead of anticommutation relations we would end up with the Hamiltonian, see Peskin and Schroeder

$$
H = \int\frac{d^3p}{(2\pi)^3}E_p
\sum_{s=1}^2
\Big(
a^{s\dagger}_\textbf{p}a^s_\textbf{p}
-b^{s\dagger}_{\textbf{p}}b^s_{\textbf{p}}
\Big). \tag{3.90}
$$

They write that this Hamiltonian is not bounded below. And that by creating more and more particles with ##b^\dagger## we could lower the energy indefinitely.

What do they mean when they say that we could lower the energy indefinitely by creating more and more particles with ##b^\dagger##? Do they mean that we can lower the energy to negative infinity or do they just mean that we can lower the energy indefinitely to get to the ground state of the system?

Also what does it mean for the Hamiltonian to not be bounded below?
 
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  • #2
A Hamiltonian is called "bounded from below", if there exists ##E_0## such that for all vectors in Hilbert space
$$\langle \psi|\hat{H}|\psi \rangle \geq E_0.$$

Now you can show easily that (after putting everything in a large box, so that the momentum-spin Fock states become true Hilbert-space states) the Fock states with ##N_b(\vec{p},\sigma)## are eigenstates of the Hamiltonian with eigenvalues ##-\sum_{\vec{p},\sigma} E_p N(\vec{p},\sigma)##, which you can make ##\rightarrow -\infty## by just occupying more and more single-b-particle states.

To get a finite Hamiltonian (via normal ordering) bounded from below you have to quantize Dirac fields as fermions, which holds for any fields with an half-integer spin number. This is the famous spin-statistics theorem.

For details about the general case, see Weinberg, Quantum Theory of Fields, Vol. 1.
 
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  • #3
Great answer but I kinda got lost in your second paragraph.

What does ##N_b(\vec{p},\sigma)## represent? I understand that ##\vec{p}## is the momentum but what is ##\sigma## and ##N_b## in your case?

When you write that ##N_b(\vec{p},\sigma)## are eigenstates of the Hamiltonian do you mean that
##H N_b(\vec{p},\sigma) = -E_pN_b(\vec{p},\sigma)##
 
  • #4
[itex]b^{s\dagger}b^s[/itex] is some sort of occupation number and counts the number of particles. More number of particles created with [itex]b^{\dagger}[/itex] will increase this occupation number and will give negative contribution to Hamiltonian.
 
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  • #5
The Fock states are defined as the common eigenstates of the number operators ##\hat{N}_{a}(\vec{p},\sigma)=\hat{a}^{\dagger}(\vec{p},\sigma) \hat{a}(\vec{p},\sigma)## and ##\hat{N}_{b}(\vec{p},\sigma)=\hat{b}^{\dagger}(\vec{p},\sigma) \hat{b}(\vec{p},\sigma)##. These states are eigenstates of the Hamiltonian since (for particles in a finite box)
$$\hat{H}=\sum_{\vec{p},\sigma} E_(p) [\hat{N}_a(\vec{p},\sigma)-\hat{N}_b(\vec{p},\sigma)].$$
If you, e.g., choose a state with all ##N_a(\vec{p},\sigma)=0## you can make the eigenvalue of ##\hat{H}## arbitrarily small, i.e., make it ##\rightarrow \infty## by occupying more and more ##b##-particle states.
 
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  • #6
vanhees71 said:
The Fock states are defined as the common eigenstates of the number operators ##\hat{N}_{a}(\vec{p},\sigma)=\hat{a}^{\dagger}(\vec{p},\sigma) \hat{a}(\vec{p},\sigma)## and ##\hat{N}_{b}(\vec{p},\sigma)=\hat{b}^{\dagger}(\vec{p},\sigma) \hat{b}(\vec{p},\sigma)##. These states are eigenstates of the Hamiltonian since (for particles in a finite box)
$$\hat{H}=\sum_{\vec{p},\sigma} E_(p) [\hat{N}_a(\vec{p},\sigma)-\hat{N}_b(\vec{p},\sigma)].$$
If you, e.g., choose a state with all ##N_a(\vec{p},\sigma)=0## you can make the eigenvalue of ##\hat{H}## arbitrarily small, i.e., make it ##\rightarrow \infty## by occupying more and more ##b##-particle states.

Thanks! Now I finally get it!
 

Related to What does it mean for the Hamiltonian to not be bounded?

1. What is the Hamiltonian in physics?

The Hamiltonian is a mathematical operator in physics that represents the total energy of a system. It is often used in the study of quantum mechanics and classical mechanics.

2. What does it mean for the Hamiltonian to not be bounded?

When the Hamiltonian is not bounded, it means that there is no upper limit to its energy values. This can lead to unphysical and infinite energy states, making the system unpredictable and unstable.

3. How does a non-bounded Hamiltonian affect the behavior of a system?

A non-bounded Hamiltonian can lead to chaotic and unpredictable behavior in a system. It can also result in the system having unstable energy states, making it difficult to accurately predict the future behavior of the system.

4. What are the consequences of a non-bounded Hamiltonian in quantum mechanics?

In quantum mechanics, a non-bounded Hamiltonian can result in the system having infinite energy states, making it impossible to accurately predict the behavior of the system. This can make it difficult to study and understand the system's properties and behavior.

5. How do scientists deal with a non-bounded Hamiltonian in their research?

Scientists often use mathematical techniques to "bound" the Hamiltonian in their calculations and models. This can help to avoid infinite energy states and make the system more predictable. However, this approach may not always accurately reflect the true behavior of the system, so it is important for scientists to carefully consider the implications of a non-bounded Hamiltonian in their research.

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