What is a Borel Set? Explained with Examples

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter hassman
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Set
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Borel sets, particularly seeking clarity through examples and definitions. Participants explore the nature of Borel sets in the context of topologies, metric spaces, and their properties, with a focus on both finite and infinite cases.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in understanding Borel sets due to abstract explanations and requests clearer examples.
  • Another participant defines Borel sets as "the smallest σ-algebra on X that contains all the open subsets of X," suggesting that in the case of a finite set, the Borel sets coincide with the power set.
  • It is noted that for finite or countable metric spaces, Borel sets can be all subsets, but this is contingent on the topology being considered.
  • A participant challenges the assertion that all subsets are Borel sets by referencing the trivial topology, which leads to a discussion about the conditions under which this holds true.
  • Some participants outline properties of Borel sets, including that open sets are Borel, and that Borel sets can be formed through unions, intersections, and complements of other Borel sets.
  • There is a mention of the need for careful consideration of operations on Borel sets, as finite repetitions may not suffice to generate all Borel sets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the properties and definitions of Borel sets. While some points are clarified, there remains uncertainty about the implications of different topologies and the completeness of the definitions provided.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding Borel sets based on the choice of topology and the nature of the space being considered. There are unresolved questions about the applicability of certain properties across different contexts.

hassman
Messages
36
Reaction score
0
Hi...

I have searched but the explanations that are given are too abstract. Why is it so difficult to use an example to show what a Borel set is?

Assume X = {1, 2, 3}. Then the power set of X is a topology. Borel set is defined on topologies right?

So what would be then a Borel set?

Or perhaps someone could explain to me without the above example, but in clearer terms what a Borel set is?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The abstract definition is "the smallest σ-algebra on X that contains all the open subsets of X". So in this case, since a σ-algebra on X is a subset of the power set of X, and since the set of all open subsets of X is the power set (by your choice), the set of Borel sets is the power set. With this topology, a set is Borel if and only if it's open.

I suggest you look at exercises 1.9.3 and 1.9.8 in this book, and that you also read the comments after the exercises.
 
So, as noted, the Borel sets for a finite (or even countable) metric space turn out to be *all* subsets, so there is no need for a separate study of them. The best place to investigate Borel sets is the metric space of the real line. In that case, NOT every set is a Borel set.
 
thank you. i will buy that book probably. looks pretty good. i cannot make the exercises though as i lack the fundamentals.
 
So, as noted, the Borel sets for a finite (or even countable) metric space turn out to be *all* subsets

No, this is true only for the trivial (full) topology. For an extreme couterexample, consider the other trivial topology \left\{\emptyset,X\right\}.
 
JSuarez said:
No, this is true only for the trivial (full) topology. For an extreme couterexample, consider the other trivial topology \left\{\emptyset,X\right\}.
That cannot be the topology of a metric space, though, unless X is empty or a single point.
 
It's been some time since I last saw them, so someone correct me if I am wrong in thinking that these are precisely the Borel sets:
- open sets are Borel
- any set obtained from other Borel sets via unions and intersections is Borel
 
RoNN|3 said:
It's been some time since I last saw them, so someone correct me if I am wrong in thinking that these are precisely the Borel sets:
- open sets are Borel
- any set obtained from other Borel sets via unions and intersections is Borel

complements, too

countable intersections

countable unions

but keep repeating these operations (finitely many repetitions may not be enough...)
 
Indeed, I forgot the complements.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
18K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K