What is the gravitational component in the radial direction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the derivation of the gravitational component in the radial direction as presented in Taylor's Classical Mechanics, specifically in the context of centrifugal acceleration and its effects on free fall acceleration. Participants explore the mathematical relationships and projections involved in this derivation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references Taylor's equation for free fall acceleration, expressing confusion about the derivation of the radial component of gravitational acceleration.
  • Another participant explains that the first equation includes the centrifugal component and describes how the radial component is calculated as a vector sum, involving projections of forces.
  • Several participants discuss the nature of projections in trigonometry, specifically the use of sine and cosine in relation to angles and axes defined in the problem.
  • There is a contention regarding the correct angle to use for the projection of the centrifugal force, with one participant asserting that the angle used in Taylor's text is from the Earth's rotation axis, which leads to different interpretations of the projection calculations.
  • A participant expresses a desire for a diagram to clarify the relationships between the vectors involved, indicating confusion over the angles and projections discussed.
  • Another participant attempts to clarify the projection of the centrifugal force on the y-axis, leading to further discussion about the angles involved and their complementary nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the interpretation of angles and projections in the context of the gravitational component. There is no consensus on the correct approach to the projection calculations, and confusion persists about the definitions and angles used in Taylor's equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence on the definitions of angles and the choice of coordinate axes, which may affect the interpretation of the projections. There are unresolved aspects regarding the mathematical steps in the derivation of the radial component.

SebastianRM
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Hey guys, I reading over Taylor's Classical Mechanics book. Chapter 9, Centrifugal Acceleration Section.
In p.346 he mentions that for a free fall acceleration:
g = g_0 + Ω^2 * Rsinθ ρ
Where its radial component would be:
g_rad = g_0 - Ω^2 * Rsinθ^2
I am just confused in the derivation, I am unsure of how he got there.
 
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The first equation you posted adds the centrifugal component to the force of attraction between the Earth and the mass. That is explained in Eq. (9.43). The second equation you posted is the magnitude of the vector sum implied by the first equation (see exaggerated diagram below). Taylor is calculating the radial component of the effective g (black arrow). This is the red arrow plus the projection of the centrifugal force FCF on the red arrow. That's ##F_{CF}\sin \theta##. ##F_{CF}## itself is given in Eq. (9.40).

Effective_g.png
 

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I am a bit confused on the projection aspect, I can only recall projection involving cos(theta) so would you mind explaining how to derive that projection?
 
SebastianRM said:
I am a bit confused on the projection aspect, I can only recall projection involving cos(theta) so would you mind explaining how to derive that projection?
If you take an angle theta in the first quadrant, the projection on the x-axis involves cos(theta). Its projection on the y-axis involves sin(theta).

Here, if we imagine coordinate axes, we could lay down the x-axis tangential to the Earth's surface (running from northwest to southeast). We could then lay down the y-axis at right angles, running from the center of the Earth out to the point of tangency. Now FCF is in the first quadrant and we want the projection on the y-axis (i.e. parallel to gravity). So we use the sine.

We could measure a different angle, e.g. the angle between FCF and g0. The projection would involve the cosine of that angle. Both sine and cosine are correct because the two angles are complementary (add up to 90 degrees).
 
jbriggs444 said:
Both sine and cosine are correct because the two angles are complementary (add up to 90 degrees).
Yes but Taylor's textbook measures angle ##\theta## from the Earth's rotation axis which in the drawing is from the bottom of the screen to the top (colatitude). The acute angle between the magnitudes of the red vector and the blue vector is 90o - θ. The choice has already been made.
 
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kuruman said:
Yes but Taylor's textbook measures angle ##\theta## from the Earth's rotation axis which in the drawing is from the bottom of the screen to the top (colatitude). The acute angle between the magnitude of the red vector and the blue vector is 90o - θ. The choice has already been made.
Would you guys mind doing a diagram for this? I do not know why I am not getting it. I tried doing a diagram myself, I ended up with an X looking diagram with x-axis going from NW to SE (having this shape \ ). And the y-axis would be this element: / (So g_0 is pointing along this axis). With an angle theta between the y-axis and the Earth's rotation axis. This means that 90-theta will be the angle between g_0 and F_cf . That also means that the angle between F_cf and x-axis is also 90-theta.
So the projection of F_cf on the y-axis would be F_cf sin(90-theta), which i think it wrong it should only be F_cf sin(theta).
 
SebastianRM said:
Would you guys mind doing a diagram for this?
The radial component (in the ##-\hat r## direction) of the vector sum of red and blue is ##g_0-a_{CF}\cos(90^o-\theta)= g_0-a_{CF}\sin \theta##. The magnitude of the centripetal acceleration is ##a_{CF}=\Omega^2\rho=\Omega^2R \sin \theta## (see fig. 9.9).

Effective_g2.png
 

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