Admissions What is the letter of recommendation?

[Grands]

Hi guys.
My question is, what is the letter of recommendation ?
Is basically a letter wrote by a teacher for a student that want to go to the university?

How it works?

I noticed that if I want to apply for Uk universities I need one.

Thanks.

 

[mfb]

Is basically a letter wrote by a teacher for a student that want to go to the university?

Yes. Teacher/supervisor/more senior co-worker/... (I'll use teacher now)

How it works?

It depends. In all cases you should ask the teacher first, and do it with sufficient lead time (>2 weeks before deadlines). If they know you well, they can write the letter based on that, otherwise it might help to give them some more information what you did in the past. Tell them where you apply, because a good letter is written based on that.

Sometimes you apply and the place you apply to asks the teachers to send them letters, sometimes you have to ask the teachers to send the letters on their own, sometimes they have to send them via some web form. In all cases it is your responsibility that everyone knows what is supposed to happen when.

 

[f95toli]

It might be worth checking with the university if they have any guidelines for the letter of recommendation. The system for this in the UK (or at least at my sons school) is somewhat formalized and there is some information that should be in the letters. At my sons school all letters are written by the same person (after consulting the relevant teachers, looking at school records etc) for this very reason (and yes this does mean that the vice head in question will have to write a LOT of letters).

 

[Grands]

supervisor/more senior co-worker

Which kind of workers are those one?
Are them in the high school?

It depends. In all cases you should ask the teacher first, and do it with sufficient lead time (>2 weeks before deadlines).

The problem is that I don't have teachers that speak english.
The letter should be done by a specific teacher?
For example, I if I will apply for Math, I need a letter wrote by the math teachers?
It is legal to translate by myself that letter or should be done completely by a teacher?

If they know you well, they can write the letter based on that, otherwise it might help to give them some more information what you did in the past.

Basically they have to write about how is my behavior at school ?

The system for this in the UK (or at least at my sons school) is somewhat formalized and there is some information that should be in the letters.

In general is this system only in the UK?

Thanks.

 

[Vanadium 50]

My question is, what is the letter of recommendation ?

And when you typed that into Google, what answer did you get? What did you not understand?

 

[Grands]

And when you typed that into Google, what answer did you get? What did you not understand?

Since is something that doesn't exist in my country I wanted more explication from someone that had to deal with it.

 

[Mark44]

Since is something that doesn't exist in my country

I don't believe this. In several of your threads, you've made a blanket statement about something not existing in Italy that commonly occurs in many other countries. Because you are very young, as compared to many of us here at PF, I question whether you have enough life experience to make these claims.

In any case, whether or not the concept of "letter of recommendation" exists in Italy, why didn't you do some research on your own before coming here and asking us? I've been a college teacher for about 25 years. I've always been much more willing to help students who come to me, saying, "I don't understand XYZ concept. The textbook describes it like this, but I'm having trouble understanding this part of their explanation."

In other words, I've always been a lot more willing to help my students who have done at least a minimum amount of legwork beforehand.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Since is something that doesn't exist in my country

Bull...ony. I have written several letters for Italians.

 

[Grands]

I don't believe this. In several of your threads, you've made a blanket statement about something not existing in Italy that commonly occurs in many other countries.

I don't know if the letter of recommendation exist in others countries outside UK, I just find on the UCAS portal and I need one to apply, I hope it's not necessary for US universities.
I basically don't understand why is this letter useful and necessary if I post on the application my marks from High school.
UCAS says that if I don't have one, I will probably have low change to be accepted, that's what I know about.

Bull...ony. I have written several letters for Italians.

For Italians that have to apply for italian universities?
For which one?

 

[StoneTemplePython]

I don't believe this. In several of your threads, you've made a blanket statement about something not existing in Italy that commonly occurs in many other countries. Because you are very young, as compared to many of us here at PF, I question whether you have enough life experience to make these claims.

In any case, whether or not the concept of "letter of recommendation" exists in Italy, why didn't you do some research on your own before coming here and asking us? I've been a college teacher for about 25 years. I've always been much more willing to help students who come to me, saying, "I don't understand XYZ concept. The textbook describes it like this, but I'm having trouble understanding this part of their explanation."

In other words, I've always been a lot more willing to help my students who have done at least a minimum amount of legwork beforehand.

It seems like we may need to make something like a special homework template for @Grands to show his work before he lobs in questions like this...

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I basically don't understand why is this letter useful and necessary if I post on the application my marks from High school.
UCAS says that if I don't have one, I will probably have low change to be accepted, that's what I know about.

https://blog.prepscholar.com/why-are-recommendations-important-to-your-college-application

 

[symbolipoint]

Since is something that doesn't exist in my country I wanted more explication from someone that had to deal with it.

Let me ask a really dumb question: Are you sure? Are you sure that something like that does not exist in your country?

 

[symbolipoint]

https://blog.prepscholar.com/why-are-recommendations-important-to-your-college-application

I did not check the link yet, so some details there may be important depending on different situations.
Not every university requires letters of recommendations for students to apply and be admitted. Maybe letters needed to get into a graduate program, but often enough not necessary to get into undergraduate programs at local public colleges and universities. If a student is not academically ready right from high school, he has the option of a few semesters attending community college and then can usually transfer very successfully to a university. Many students do this (but obviously for undergraduate programs).

 

[symbolipoint]

Grands, maybe this concept can be explained very plainly based on something you said in another topic earlier: That often in "your country", a person gets a job based on another person associated with the company, such as a friend of both the company and the person wanting the job. Now instead of "mutual friend" of both the company and the job-seeker, extend this to "supervisor or manager or administrator" who knows the talents, skills, and behavior of the person seeking the job. Now, further extend this such that the supervisor who knows about the job-seek candidate IS NOT acquainted with the company and IS NOT acquainted with any managers at the company, and nobody at the company knows the supervisor or manager of the job-seek candidate.

Somehow, the hiring company looking for someone to hire, is supposed to trust the supervisor of the job-seeking candidate and to accept a letter of recommendation from that supervisor for the benefit of the job-seeking candidate. Yes, this does seem strange, Why should the hiring company care about what the supervisor of the job seeker writes in a letter. The hiring company and the supervisor of the job seeker do not know each other. This seems like a cheap political stunt - BUT this practice of using letters of recommendation occurs in employment and in educational graduate programs.

 

[CrysPhys]

I basically don't understand why is this letter useful and necessary if I post on the application my marks from High school.
UCAS says that if I don't have one, I will probably have low change to be accepted, that's what I know about.

Remember, unlike the situation you previously described in Italy, a student typically needs to apply for admission to a university (at least in the US). And often, more students apply than there are openings. For some schools, a lot more students apply than there are openings. For example, for the 2017 freshman entering class at MIT, the number of students that applied was 20,247; the number accepted was only 1,452 [http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats]. So, many applicants will have high grade-point averages from high-school, and many applicants will have high scores in entrance exams. Other factors are then needed to determine who should be admitted. Letters of recommendation provide some additional input for evaluating applicants.

 

[Grands]

Remember, unlike the situation you previously described in Italy, a student typically needs to apply for admission to a university (at least in the US). And often, more students apply than there are openings. For some schools, a lot more students apply than there are openings. For example, for the 2017 freshman entering class at MIT, the number of students that applied was 20,247; the number accepted was only 1,452 [http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats]. So, many applicants will have high grade-point averages from high-school, and many applicants will have high scores in entrance exams. Other factors are then needed to determine who should be admitted. Letters of recommendation provide some additional input for evaluating applicants.

Ok, this is helpful, and a student that is refused can send another application to another university ?

 

[russ_watters]

I don't believe this.

And irrelevant, unless there is an Italy-only Google I'm not aware of...

In either case, the recommendation requirements are generally specified by the entity asking for the recommendations and can vary widely.

 

[Grands]

Grands, maybe this concept can be explained very plainly based on something you said in another topic earlier: That often in "your country", a person gets a job based on another person associated with the company, such as a friend of both the company and the person wanting the job. Now instead of "mutual friend" of both the company and the job-seeker, extend this to "supervisor or manager or administrator" who knows the talents, skills, and behavior of the person seeking the job. Now, further extend this such that the supervisor who knows about the job-seek candidate IS NOT acquainted with the company and IS NOT acquainted with any managers at the company, and nobody at the company knows the supervisor or manager of the job-seek candidate.

Do you want to say that in the USA, in order to avoid the fact that people find a job just because is a friend of someone that already work in that company, the recommendation letter exist?

 

[Grands]

And irrelevant, unless there is an Italy-only Google I'm not aware of...

We have www.google.it

 

[russ_watters]

We have www.google.it

Let me rephrase: irrelevant unless Italy has a firewall that blocks you from being able to search for sites outside of Italy.

The point stands either way: you really need to become more resourceful at finding answers on your own, at least as a starting point for a discussion.

 

[Grands]

Let me rephrase: irrelevant unless Italy has a firewall that blocks you from being able to search for sites outside of Italy.

The point stands either way: you really need to become more resourceful at finding answers on your own, at least as a starting point for a discussion.

Ok, I will try, I asked just because it's something I never heard about, and also my teachers aren't aware of the letter of recommendation, which is probably a trivial topic for most of the students.

When we finish High School we are free to do what we want, there are no rules, you just go to study where you want ( if you have the money to do it).
This means that it doesn't matter how good you are at high school, no one will pay attention on it, I know people with the maximum grades that didn't go to the university.

 

[CrysPhys]

Ok, this is helpful, and a student that is refused can send another application to another university ?

In the US, a senior in high school typically applies to a number of universities at the same time. I don't have any statistics, but I think about 6 is common, but some will apply to 10 or so [by the way, most schools charge an application fee, so that tends to limit the number of applications any student sends out]. One strategy students use is to apply to universities in 3 bins: "reach" schools, such as MIT or Harvard, that are hard to get into, "possible" schools that they are likely to get into, and "safety" schools that they are almost guaranteed to get into (often a large state university near their home). In the US, most universities' application and admission schedules are about the same. So the student then waits, see which schools have accepted him, and then decides which one.

It's not a good practice to apply to only one school. If you don't get accepted, you typically need to wait another year before applying to another school. There may be some schools that take late applications (not sure), but most major schools run admissions only once per year with set deadlines. Again, this is US practice.

 

[Mark44]

The point stands either way: you really need to become more resourceful at finding answers on your own, at least as a starting point for a discussion.

Ok, I will try

No! Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try.

Or at least, try harder. You're wasting a lot of people's time on questions that you should have done some research on before you posted them here.

 

[CrysPhys]

Or at least, try harder. You're wasting a lot of people's time on questions that you should have done some research on before you posted them here.

? If I consider a particular post to be a waste of my time, I simply ignore it, rather than responding. We all have that choice.

 

[Mark44]

? If I consider a particular post to be a waste of my time, I simply ignore it, rather than responding. We all have that choice.

Certainly that's always a choice. But on the other hand, if a poster does some legwork first, the odds are that more people will be inclined to chime in. A thread titled "What is a letter of recommendation?" doesn't show even the minimal amount of research, as has been pointed out in this thread.

 

[russ_watters]

? If I consider a particular post to be a waste of my time, I simply ignore it, rather than responding. We all have that choice.

Ok, but a few things you might consider:

1. You may not know to what extent your time is being wasted when you reply. If you're ok with finding out later (or not) that you guessed wrong, so be it. But:

2. It is often more productive in the long run to force people to make an effort themselves. That's a rule for homework, but the spirit exists everywhere here.

3. Some of us responding are moderators and have a duty to cultivate forum quality. Help from other members is appreciated, though not always required.

 

[mathwonk]

you said your teachers do not write in english and asked if you yourself could translate for them. the answer in my opinion is no, since it is best if you yourself do not see the letter of reccommendation. a letter is considered more believable if the candidate does not see it. this is complicated by some privacy laws that say the candidate must be allowed to see them, so in that case the candidate is wise to write a statement waiving his right to see the letter. note that a letter from the head say of a school, or a teacher with decades of experience says something like :"this candidate is the strongest mathemaics student I have seen in 30 years, and is definitely a potential scientist of high quality. He is seldom stumped by the most difficult challenges, and seems only inspired by them. I look forward to following his career", then this can significantly help. Of course such letters hopefully occur only at most once every 30 years, still you can see that a letter can definitely enhance an application based otherwise only on scores. There are also letters for students with high grades that say: "this student, although very talented, seldom exerts himself to his full potential. If he is not motivated well, which does not happen often, he will deliver only routine quality work." These will dull the benefit of high scores and probably prevent acceptance by good schools.

You should google: "how to write a recommendation letter", and you will find a complete description of what such a letter should contain, as well as examples of them. You might also write some professors at Italian universities and ask for advice, as many of them have studied in the US and UK.

 

[symbolipoint]

Do you want to say that in the USA, in order to avoid the fact that people find a job just because is a friend of someone that already work in that company, the recommendation letter exist?

No.

 

[symbolipoint]

Ok, I will try, I asked just because it's something I never heard about, and also my teachers aren't aware of the letter of recommendation, which is probably a trivial topic for most of the students.

When we finish High School we are free to do what we want, there are no rules, you just go to study where you want ( if you have the money to do it).
This means that it doesn't matter how good you are at high school, no one will pay attention on it, I know people with the maximum grades that didn't go to the university.

Not credible!

 

[mfb]

Since is something that doesn't exist in my country

I don't know if the letter of recommendation exist in others countries outside UK

Do you realize how contradicting this is?

Letters of recommendation exist basically everywhere, where exactly they are needed depends on the country.

 

[Grands]

you said your teachers do not write in english and asked if you yourself could translate for them. the answer in my opinion is no, since it is best if you yourself do not see the letter of reccommendation. a letter is considered more believable if the candidate does not see it.

That means that I have to teach teachers to do something that I can't read...wow.

Not credible!

Why?!?

You might also write some professors at Italian universities and ask for advice, as many of them have studied in the US and UK.

I searched so many CV and none of italians professors that have studied in UK or US are in Italy now, they obviously prefer to stay where they studied.

Letters of recommendation exist basically everywhere, where exactly they are needed depends on the country.

We don't have letter of recommendation, you go to the university by your own.

 

[Grands]

PS. Is this letter needed also for a PhD?

 

[symbolipoint]

Grands said:

Ok, I will try, I asked just because it's something I never heard about, and also my teachers aren't aware of the letter of recommendation, which is probably a trivial topic for most of the students.

When we finish High School we are free to do what we want, there are no rules, you just go to study where you want ( if you have the money to do it).
This means that it doesn't matter how good you are at high school, no one will pay attention on it, I know people with the maximum grades that didn't go to the university.

You asked why this is not credible.
It simply is not credible! Your "teachers are not aware of letter of recommendation,..." . That is incredible on its face.

"...,This means that it doesn't matter how good you are at high school, no one will pay attention on it, I know people with the maximum grades that didn't go to the university."
Again, this is not believable. If a student is not qualified for a program, why would the university simply allow him to study it without his first fulfilling the prerequisite skills and knowledge? Having the money is absolutely not the same as having the technical competence. A legitimate university will operate differently than you say.

 

[Grands]

It simply is not credible! Your "teachers are not aware of letter of recommendation,..." . That is incredible on its face.

How can I prove this?

Again, this is not believable. If a student is not qualified for a program, why would the university simply allow him to study it without his first fulfilling the prerequisite skills and knowledge? Having the money is absolutely not the same as having the technical competence. A legitimate university will operate differently than you say.

University doesn't care how good you was at high school, when you start a university you start from 0, and no one know who you are and what did you do in the past, no one care.
You don't need money for tuition fees, but just for rent and cost of living, that is something you need even if you don't go to the university.

 

[symbolipoint]

How can I prove this?University doesn't care how good you was at high school, when you start a university you start from 0, and no one know who you are and what did you do in the past, no one care.
You don't need money for tuition fees, but just for rent and cost of living, that is something you need even if you don't go to the university.

I guess what you say is what you say. If nobody from Italy contributes to this topic to confirm or deny it, then all we have is what has been written here so far. If anyone has some connections to Italy, he may too know more completely what is what.

 

[Grands]

I guess what you say is what you say. If nobody from Italy contributes to this topic to confirm or deny it, then all we have is what has been written here so far. If anyone has some connections to Italy, he may too know more completely what is what.

I just don't understand why is so strange for you this situation.

 

[CrysPhys]

PS. Is this letter needed also for a PhD?

Again this up to the individual school and practice may vary among different countries. But most likely, yes. It was a long time since I applied for grad school, but I think I needed to send three letters to all the schools I applied to.

 

[Grands]

Again this up to the individual school and practice may vary among different countries. But most likely, yes. It was a long time since I applied for grad school, but I think I needed to send three letters to all the schools I applied to.

There aren't any test ?
We usually have a limited number of places for people that want to get a PhD.
So basically there is a test and the people that obtain the great score can be admitted.
If there are 10 places will be taken the 10 best scores.

 

[CrysPhys]

There aren't any test ?
We usually have a limited number of places for people that want to get a PhD.
So basically there is a test and the people that obtain the great score can be admitted.
If there are 10 places will be taken the 10 best scores.

In the US, typical entrance exams are the Graduate Record Exams (GRE's). As in the case of undergrad admissions, for many major schools, many more qualified applicants (all with high test scores) will apply than there are positions. So test scores alone are not sufficient. Applicants are evaluated on the basis of a matrix of criteria (depends on the school and department), not just test scores.

 

[StoneTemplePython]

http://www.mastersportal.eu/articles/1615/how-to-apply-to-an-international-university-in-italy-in-2017.html

notice under "Required application documents"
'Letter of recommendation'

OP may nitpick that this is as being for an "international university" in Italy, for master's degrees. Nevertheless these are universities in Italy.

I found this with 5 seconds of work on google.

 

[symbolipoint]

http://www.mastersportal.eu/articles/1615/how-to-apply-to-an-international-university-in-italy-in-2017.html

notice under "Required application documents"
'Letter of recommendation'

OP may nitpick that this is as being for an "international university" in Italy, for master's degrees. Nevertheless these are universities in Italy.

I found this with 5 seconds of work on google.

Grands must now be better informed and if he goes to attend an undergraduate program at an Italian university, he should at least do some nice lab work and do well. He may then be in a better position to earn a possible letter of recommendation or two, or three, from there; and be able to include them in his application package when applying for admission to a graduate program. He will need to determine what he wants to study more specifically later than what he is able to choose at present. Grands, you may want to find some academic research to do for someone or also look for an internship which you may later qualify for.

 

[mathwonk]

I gave you a link to Professor Alberto Collino of Torino who took his PhD at MIT in US, and here is another, Profesor Enrico Arbarello of Universita La Sapienza Roma, who took his PhD at Columbia in US. Here is another, Professor Giuseppe Ceresa, who took his PhD at Utah in US. There is also Paolo Aluiffi now at Florida State in the US who took the PhD at Brown in US.

http://www1.mat.uniroma1.it/people/arbarello/Curriculum.html

http://didattica.uniroma2.it/docenti/curriculum/3806-Giuseppe-Ceresa-Genet

https://www.math.fsu.edu/~aluffi/

 

[Grands]

http://www.mastersportal.eu/articles/1615/how-to-apply-to-an-international-university-in-italy-in-2017.html

notice under "Required application documents"
'Letter of recommendation'

OP may nitpick that this is as being for an "international university" in Italy, for master's degrees. Nevertheless these are universities in Italy.

I found this with 5 seconds of work on google.

Maybe that is something for people that come from other countries.

We don't have: letter of recommendation, letter of motivation, academic transcript, SAT, ACT, Portfolio.

That site is not an official university web site, if you want to know what you need to entry in a italian university you can check here http://www.unimi.it/ENG/admission/29528.htm

 

[symbolipoint]

Maybe that is something for people that come from other countries.

We don't have: letter of recommendation, letter of motivation, academic transcript, SAT, ACT, Portfolio.

That site is not an official university web site, if you want to know what you need to entry in a italian university you can check here http://www.unimi.it/ENG/admission/29528.htm

Forum members and other visitors on the forum, as you read what is in that site, notice that much of what Grands has been told (from members participating in his many forum topics) is very consistent with what is read in that site. There ARE some entrance requirements, including for undergraduate admissions. Not yet clear about "transcripts", but I will guess that transcripts will be found to be part of the necessary proof of eligibility for admission to their undergraduate programs.

 

[symbolipoint]

Maybe that is something for people that come from other countries.

We don't have: letter of recommendation, letter of motivation, academic transcript, SAT, ACT, Portfolio.

That site is not an official university web site, if you want to know what you need to entry in a italian university you can check here http://www.unimi.it/ENG/admission/29528.htm

One of the requirements for entrance to programs and courses seems to be tests for qualifications. This would, one would guess, be in addition to transcripts - like, transcripts of previous work alone is not enough to allow the student to be in a program or course; but passing certain tests is the requirements.

 

[Grands]

One of the requirements for entrance to programs and courses seems to be tests for qualifications. This would, one would guess, be in addition to transcripts - like, transcripts of previous work alone is not enough to allow the student to be in a program or course; but passing certain tests is the requirements.

We have test in some courses like Veterinary, and Architecture, cause there are limitate places of work for people that can work in the public sector.
There are no limits for engineering, physics, maths, Literature, Law, Philosophy and more etc...
Some of this university have tests but you don't have to pass it, is just a test for you, to understand if you are able to study that kind of subject, but you can join the university in any case.

 

[symbolipoint]

We have test in some courses like Veterinary, and Architecture, cause there are limitate places of work for people that can work in the public sector.
There are no limits for engineering, physics, maths, Literature, Law, Philosophy and more etc...
Some of this university have tests but you don't have to pass it, is just a test for you, to understand if you are able to study that kind of subject, but you can join the university in any case.

Wow! Yah, right! Good luck on that second part. I still do not really believe it. You might try that and report back to us how it went. To be more secure about what is in fact the true situation, ask for counseling advice from the universities at which you wish to attend.

 

[TeethWhitener]

Just as a general note, much of what @Grands is saying seems to check out in terms of admission to undergraduate programs at Italian universities. The requirements seem to be: 1) high school diploma (or equivalent), 2) occasionally a transcript requirement, and 3) an admissions test (sometimes competitive, sometimes not, depending on the program of study). Some universities also have language proficiency requirements, but many seem to offer the option to study in English or Italian.

See, e.g.,
http://en.uniroma1.it/study-us/undergraduate/admissions/second-cycle
http://www.unimi.it/ENG/admission/31190.htm
http://www.unibo.it/en/teaching/degree-programmes/programme/2017/8007

This leniency in admissions requirements leads to large universities. For instance, the University of Milan enrolls ~60,000 students (edit: Bologna has ~80k students and Rome Sapienza has >110k...yowza!). This is bigger than any US university (UCF is #1 with ~55k enrollees).

Needless to say, the post-secondary education landscape in Italy is quite different from that of the US (and probably much of the rest of the world), and much of the advice that we would give to a college-bound student in the US is likely not to be applicable to @Grands 's situation. My suggestion would be to make friends with the guidance counselor, but then again, I don't know if Italy has guidance counseling that's comparable to what's seen in the US.

 

[symbolipoint]

TeethWhitener
Thanks for trying to explain some of the differences from other places' systems.

 

[Grands]

Wow! Yah, right! Good luck on that second part. I still do not really believe it. You might try that and report back to us how it went. To be more secure about what is in fact the true situation, ask for counseling advice from the universities at which you wish to attend.

I'm 100% sure.
We don't have admission test for 80% of undergraduate degree.
The only courses that have ones are the ones I wrote before, and that courses don't have a master degree, them are single courses of 5-6 years.