What is the mathematics that took us to the moon?

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    Mathematics Moon
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical and scientific principles that contributed to the success of the Apollo moon missions. Participants explore the roles of Newton's laws, Einstein's theories, and various engineering disciplines in the context of orbital mechanics, navigation, and technology used during the missions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether Newton's three laws were sufficient for the moon landing, suggesting that Einstein's theories may not have been necessary due to the minimal impact of relativistic effects.
  • Others argue that a comprehensive understanding of the mission required more than just Newton's laws, including mechanical engineering, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, and telecommunications technology.
  • A participant mentions the use of navigation tools like sextants and star charts during the Apollo missions, highlighting the importance of accurate position and orientation for thrust transitions.
  • There is a playful exchange regarding the number of Newton's laws, with some participants suggesting that gravity should be considered separately from the three laws of motion.
  • One participant notes the limitations of technology at the time, emphasizing that the navigation systems were necessary due to the absence of modern computing devices.
  • Another participant discusses the Apollo Guidance Computer, mentioning its design features that made it suitable for space conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of Einstein's theories versus the sufficiency of Newton's laws, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain. There is no consensus on the exact mathematical and scientific requirements for the moon landing.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various scientific principles and technologies without fully resolving the implications of their contributions. Some statements reflect assumptions about the relevance of different laws and technologies that are not universally accepted.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying physics, engineering, or the history of space exploration, particularly in understanding the interplay of different scientific principles in practical applications.

AndrewRibeiro
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Are Newton's three laws all that was needed for the science that got us to the moon? Or did we need Einstein's theories to get there? I just started studying physics last week, so forgive me for my baseness.
 
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We did not need Einstein's theories to get there. Taking relativistic effects into account would only correct us by a few centimeters or so. We, of course, also needed all of the extensions of Newton's laws, i.e. all of the mechanical engineering, aerodynamics, etc. that would allow the spaceship to be structurally sound, so you also need to bring the equations of material mechanics into things. Also, thermodynamics had to be involved. Fluid mechanics for the aerodynamics, almost a century of telecommunications technology. So I'd say you can't break it down to just Newton's laws. We stood on the shoulders of many more giants to go to the moon.

If you're talking only in terms of orbital mechanics, though, no, no relativity was used. Newton's equations are good enough (though I'm sure we utilized mathematical methods introduced long after Newton to solve those equations).
 
A bit of trivia, part of Apollo's navigation involved something like a sextant and star charts, to accurately locate position and orientation of the Apollo, which was needed to make accurate thrust based transitions in and out of orbit from the Earth and moon. Earth based systems could track the Apollo for the Earth to lunar transition, but the moon to Earth transition thrust occurred past the far side of the moon.

http://www.spaceartifactsarchive.com/2013/05/the-star-chart-of-apollo.html
 
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Welcome to PF!
AndrewRibeiro said:
Are Newton's three laws all that was needed for the science that got us to the moon?
Four laws. :wink:
 
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Four?
 
Is this like telling a freshman there's a pool on the roof?
 
AndrewRibeiro said:
Is this like telling a freshman there's a pool on the roof?
What I think Russ is getting at is that Newton's "three" laws alone do not say much about gravity.
 
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jbriggs444 said:
What I think Russ is getting at is that Newton's "three" laws alone do not say much about gravity.
Yep. There was a slight disconnect in your OP, where you are clearly implying gravity by mentioning relativity, but gravity is a different law from the three laws of motion.

If I wanted to get super nitpicky, I'd probably say there were lots of others needed for the technology, including from Newton, like his law of cooling.
 
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rcgldr said:
A bit of trivia, part of Apollo's navigation involved something like a sextant and star charts, to accurately locate position and orientation of the Apollo, which was needed to make accurate thrust based transitions in and out of orbit from the Earth and moon. Earth based systems could track the Apollo for the Earth to lunar transition, but the moon to Earth transition thrust occurred past the far side of the moon.

http://www.spaceartifactsarchive.com/2013/05/the-star-chart-of-apollo.html
These navigation tools were used on Apollo because things we take for granted, like cheap calculators and small computers, weren't available or were too big to put in the spacecraft .

This article discusses the guidance system equipment which was used on most Apollo missions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
 
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SteamKing said:
This article discusses the guidance system equipment which was used on most Apollo missions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer

If I recall correctly, the NOR gates uses in that computer were more resistant to the radiation experienced in space that other technolgies of that era.
 
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