mgb_phys said:
The difficulty with all these topics is that it is hard to find/quote the original source.
So somebody (often with an interest) will try and link the belief with science by saying that this ancient_mystical_point is over some organ/structure that is now known to be important so the ancients had some secret knowledge that we only just discovered.
But did the point originally have a fixed position, did it line up with whatever the promoter is now claiming, and does the organ have anything to do with whatever this point was meant to cure?
Wiki, defines empirical research as research that bases its findings on direct or indirect observation as its test of reality. Such research may also be conducted according to hypothetico-deductive procedures.
Ancient mystics, often considered kooks by materialists even in ancient times, relied on empirical research to develop their techniques. If we go back in history it was very hard to access these techniques. They were only available to a monk or priest class and it was not quite the social scam it is today.
To alter the consciousness was a serious persuit of these individuals. To do this required many hours of observation of human consciousness. The results were shared and eventually codified and handed down. I consider this scientific empirical research.
More difficult than finding primary sources is the fact that we have to observe the results of their ancient research through the lens of our own modern culture. As an aside, the California culture we have joked about in this thread can be seen (imho) as the result of a serious breakdown in the effectiveness of the western religious models of the past few centuries. Individuals are looking for a deeper connection to the abstract modes of consciousness that religious mystery has always provided human beings since the beginning of civilization.
If we contrast this difficulty with the simplicity of the empirical method of observation we come closer to understanding the language that is used by modern kooks and mystics.
Let us take a very obvious example. There is a chakra associated to the genitals. Most of us can admit that without mythology or placebo effect that some sort of "energy" builds up in the groin. Without knowing about gonads or hormones we sense the tension build up over time and we seek release naturally. This would be the first observation to base the research on.
Can we all agree that there is a point on the body, namely the genitals, that seems to accumulate energy that is different from other points on the body?
This would be the foundation for speculating that a energy center exists in this part of the body with a particular function.
The next observation I would offer is that in the process of releasing this tension we often seek a partner. When his energy is released with another person another sort of energy arises that seems to emanate from the heart. This energy is similar but not the same as the energy that build up in the genitals. We would call it love and it has formed the basis for human relationships forever. In the 21st century we understand a little about electro-chemical reactions of nervous tissue (George W. Crile, a kook, did much of this research in the '30's using animal experiments and modern scientific method in the lab) but in ancient times they were limited to empirical research.
The stumbling block is language...metaphorical language that is interpreted as being the objective truth. What is described as a colored wheel of spritual energy is a metaphorical way of describing the hormonal electro-chemical reactions of nervous tissue.
I would suggest that taken simply there is sufficient empirical research to suggest that there is an energy associated with various organs/structures of the body.
I would hold the serious breakdown in the effectiveness of the western religious models of the past few centuries to be the cause of the silliness, wishful thinking, and outright fraud that occurs in much of the commercial discussion of "chakras" and quick self-help yoga practices. People act like they are starving or drowning and are ready to eat or cling to any idea that gives them the certainty they seem to need so bad. It is this mental pathology in our culture that prevents good empirical research into the borderlands of perception.
Pardon my word horde,
Its human nature to reject what cannot be understood by the realms of the human mind. We only experience the environment thru our sense organs...and the organs do have limitations! But wat the heck,the debate will go on...and on... and on...
