What is the significance of the nonholonomity condition in General Relativity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions necessary for space and time to be nonholonomic, particularly in the context of General Relativity. Participants explore the definitions and implications of holonomic and nonholonomic bases, as well as their relevance in differential geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants clarify that holonomic is a condition on a set of basis vectors rather than on spacetime itself.
  • One participant provides an example using polar coordinates to illustrate the concept of non-holonomic bases, discussing the relationship between unit radial vectors and orthogonal tangential vectors.
  • There is mention of dual vectors and their interpretation in the context of holonomic and nonholonomic bases, with references to specific lecture notes for further understanding.
  • Another participant reiterates the definition of a holonomic basis as one where all basis vectors commute, allowing for the selection of coordinates that correspond to partial derivative operators.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and clarification regarding the definitions of holonomic and nonholonomic bases. There is no consensus on the conditions necessary for space and time to be nonholonomic, as some participants seek further clarification while others provide definitions and examples.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific mathematical definitions and interpretations that may not be universally agreed upon, and the discussion includes references to external resources for deeper exploration.

samson
Hi everyone! Please what are the conditions necessary for space and time to be nonholonomic?
 
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To give a specific example. In polar coordinates, ##r, \theta##, a vector field that consists of unit radial vectors (often written as ##\hat{r}##), and orthogonal tangential vectors (often written as ##\hat{\theta}##) would be a non-holonomic basis. It might be more familiar in terms of the dual vectors (though the terminology might not be familiar, perhaps). dr and d##\theta## can be interpreted as dual vectors. Then dr and d##\theta## would be holonomic, and not normal (because the vectors don't have unit lengths). However, dr and ##r \, d\theta## would be non-holonmic, but normal, since the (dual) vectors do have unit length.

The notion of vectors as partial derivative operators and dual vectors gets some mention in Sean Caroll's lecture notes <<link>>, see for instance

In spacetime the simplest example of a dual vector is the gradient of a scalar function, the set of partial derivatives with respect to the spacetime coordinates, which we denote by “d”:

It's also worth looking up what a coordinate basis is. Note that "coordinate basis" is more or less just another term for "holonomic basis". (Perhaps some more mathematical sort will correct me if there is some tiny difference). If you look up "coordinate basis" in Caroll's lecture notes, you'll find that it's identified as being equiavalent to partial derivatives with respect to the coordaintes. So in our example a coordinate basis of vectors could be identified with partial derivative operators, such as ##\partial_r## or in different notation ##\frac{\partial}{\partial r}##. The identification of vectors as partial derivative operators is not very intuitive, but an important definition for differential geometry.
 
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A holonomic basis is a basis where all of the basis vectors commute. Given a holonomic basis, it is possible to choose coordinates ##x^\mu## such that the basis vectors are the set of partial derivative operators ##\partial/\partial x^\mu##.
 
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samson said:
Hi everyone! Please what are the conditions necessary for space and time to be nonholonomic?
This is very helpful to me! Thanks for your time sir!
 
Ben Niehoff said:
A holonomic basis is a basis where all of the basis vectors commute. Given a holonomic basis, it is possible to choose coordinates ##x^\mu## such that the basis vectors are the set of partial derivative operators ##\partial/\partial x^\mu##.

Thanks sir
 

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