What is the significance of this curl product rule?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around verifying a vector calculus identity involving the curl of the cross product of two vector fields, A and B. Participants are exploring the significance of the placement of the vectors in dot products and the implications of the gradient operator's position.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the significance of the order of vectors in dot products and the implications of the gradient operator's position in the identity. There is an exploration of how these placements affect the interpretation of the identity and the derivation process.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered alternative formulations of the identity to clarify the relationships between vector and scalar fields. Others are expressing uncertainty about their interpretations and the correctness of their derivations, indicating a productive exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a specific line in a participant's derivation that may contain an error, which has led to confusion regarding the order of the vectors and the application of the gradient operator. Participants are working within the constraints of homework rules that require them to derive understanding rather than provide complete solutions.

Destroxia
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Homework Statement



Verify the identity:

## \nabla \times ( A \times B) = (B\bullet \nabla)A - (A\bullet\nabla)B + A(\nabla \bullet B)-B(\nabla\bullet A)##

My issue here is I don't understand the significance of why a term has B or A on the left of the dot product, and another has B or A on the right? (Eg ## B(\nabla)

Also, what is the significance of the ## \nabla ## being on the left, or right, of what it is multiplying? (Eg ## \langle \frac {d} {dx}, \frac {d} {dy}, \frac {d} {dz} \rangle \bullet \langle a_1, a_2, a_3 \rangle = \langle a_1, a_2, a_3 \rangle \bullet \langle \frac {d} {dx}, \frac {d} {dy}, \frac {d} {dz} \rangle##, or if the ## \nabla ## is on the right, does that leave the operator open to work on whichever comes AFTER the dot product?

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution



I have my solution attached as a thumbnail, because it's pretty hefty.

problem.png


Why does my solution look different than the given solution at the top?
 
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RyanTAsher said:
does that leave the operator open to work on whichever comes AFTER the dot product?
Yes.
A somewhat less confusing - but perhaps less memorable - way to write the identity is:

$$\nabla\times (A\times B)\equiv B\cdot[\nabla A]-A\cdot[\nabla B]+(\nabla\cdot B)A-(\nabla\cdot A)B$$
the items in square brackets are vector fields and those in round parentheses are scalar fields. So the latter can be applied to vector fields by scalar multiplication.
 
andrewkirk said:
Yes.
A somewhat less confusing - but perhaps less memorable - way to write the identity is:

$$\nabla\times (A\times B)\equiv B\cdot[\nabla A]-A\cdot[\nabla B]+(\nabla\cdot B)A-(\nabla\cdot A)B$$
the items in square brackets are vector fields and those in round parentheses are scalar fields. So the latter can be applied to vector fields by scalar multiplication.

Okay, I think I get it, but how come in my solution it seems like the A always comes first? I'm not sure what I did wrong, and why am I interpreting the ## \nabla ## as always being on the left?
 
@RyanTAsher Your derivation goes wrong in the fourth line - the long one that you split across two lines. The elements of your first coordinate are all derivatives with respect to ##x##, which is the one coordinate with respect to which no derivatives should appear in the first coordinate of the curl.
 
andrewkirk said:
@RyanTAsher Your derivation goes wrong in the fourth line - the long one that you split across two lines. The elements of your first coordinate are all derivatives with respect to ##x##, which is the one coordinate with respect to which no derivatives should appear in the first coordinate of the curl.

I'm clearly misinterpreting something then... I think I've fixed, but still not sure how this affects the order of the A, B, and also not sure of how to resolve this into the final answer. I've only done the first component.

hmmm.png
 

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