What makes a magnet, a magnet?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of what makes a magnet a magnet, exploring the properties that differentiate magnetic materials from non-magnetic ones. Participants delve into concepts of atomic structure, electron behavior, and the nature of magnetism, with a focus on both theoretical and practical implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why certain elements and compounds, like an apple, are not magnetic, despite understanding the concept of polarity.
  • Another explains that in non-magnetic materials like an apple, atomic magnetic fields are oriented randomly, leading to cancellation, while in magnets, these fields are aligned.
  • A participant suggests that everything is a very weak magnet, prompting further inquiry into why magnets orient their atoms differently than non-magnetic materials.
  • It is noted that apples are actually diamagnetic due to their water content, which raises questions about the properties of ferromagnetic materials.
  • Discussion includes the idea that only atoms with unpaired electrons produce magnetic fields, and that the balance between kinetic energy and exchange energy determines a material's magnetic properties.
  • One participant states that magnets are defined by their attraction to iron, cobalt, and nickel, but admits that the underlying mechanisms of magnetism are not fully understood.
  • Another participant points out that not all alloys of ferromagnetic elements are magnetic, and emphasizes that the quantum mechanical exchange interaction is key to understanding ferromagnetism.
  • There is mention of the complexity of magnetic order and ferromagnetism, indicating that while some aspects are well understood, there are still areas of active research.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of magnetism, with some agreeing on basic principles while others highlight complexities and uncertainties. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the complete understanding of how magnetism works.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of magnetism, the complexity of atomic interactions, and the unresolved nature of certain magnetic phenomena.

Fuz
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What makes a magnet, a magnet? Ok... I know about polarity and all that. I just don't get why certain elements and compounds aren't magnetic. For example, why isn't an apple magnetic? Thats a little extreme but I think you get the point :smile:
 
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In the apple, the contributions to the total magnetic field due to all the atoms are oriented in random directions, and on the average they cancel each other out. In a magnet the magnetic fields produced by individuals atoms are aligned so that they add up.
 
mikelepore said:
In the apple, the contributions to the total magnetic field due to all the atoms are oriented in random directions, and on the average they cancel each other out. In a magnet the magnetic fields produced by individuals atoms are aligned so that they add up.

Ah, so technically everything is a (very weak) magnet, right? Well why would a normal magnet orient its atoms opposed to the apple?
 
Not everything is a weak magnet, in fact, an apple is actually diamagnetic because it contains mostly water. I don't know too much about the physical properties of ferromagnetic materials so I can't answer your question.
 
Not all atoms produce magnetic fields, only ones with unpaired electrons do. Actually, in a material, the most energetic electrons (usually called valence electrons) don't 'belong' to particular atoms, they actually move about the about the material quite a bit. They have kinetic energy from this, and the kinetic energy for a magnetic system is higher than for a non-magnetic system. From quantum mechanics, there is something called the exchange energy which is lowered if electrons have their spins lined up, so the exchange energy favors magnetism. Whether a material is magnetic or not comes from the competition of these two terms in the energy; if making a material magnetic causes the kinetic energy to be increased less than exchange energy is lowered, then the material will be magnetic.
 
What makes a magnet a magnet is that Iron, Cobalt, and Nickel are attracted by it. Anything that attracts those 3 elements, pure or as alloys is considered a magnet. But your question really is how do magnets work. My best answer is that nobody knows.

Beware of complicated explanations which in the end only explain the observable effects. As for the electron spin explanation consider this. All other elements with 2 outer orbital electrons are not magnetic. How does a local affect of two electrons spinning in the same direction create attraction or repultion at a distance. We just don't know yet.
 
Not all alloys of iron, nickel or colbalt (or gadolinium or dysoprosium, the two other ferromagnetic elements) are ferromagnetic. Many stainless steels are not, and even the Cu-Ni alloy in nickels is not.

Second, there are whole books written about magnetic order in general and ferromagnetism in particular. In normal ferromagnets, it's quite well understood (there are more exotic ferromagnets that are an active area of research). Each atom acts as a tiny magnet, and the quantum mechanical exchange interaction causes them to spontaneously line up.
 
An object that is surrounded by a magnetic field and that has the property, either natural or induced, of attracting iron or steel.
An electromagnet.
A person, a place, an object, or a situation that exerts attraction.[spam link deleted]
 
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