News What's the big deal with the census?

[turbo]

I got a notice in the mail today informing me that census forms will be mailed soon, and that I should fill them out and return them. How stupid is that? Let's say the sent out 100M of those notices... That's a lot of wasted paper and postage.

Am I missing something here, or is it just more government waste?

 

[lisab]

They're using http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011111456_censusfortune18m.html?syndication=rss" to get the word out, too.

 

[mgb_phys]

I think it's to reduce the "census taker - shotgun" rate

Humboldt County is the kind of place where surprise visits from people with clipboards can cause panic and mayhem

http://humboldtherald.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/census-2010-a-humboldt-service-announcement/

 

[MotoH]

The census should come in the mail, and if you do not return the census form, you will not get your taxes back until you turn it in.

"Hey, the census is coming to you in the mail!" Well thanks, I would have found that out once I got it.

Oh, and we are having problems finding people to go onto the reservations here. They are scary places, don't let the casino fool you, once you go into the actual sticks of the res it is the gnarliest place you will ever be.

 

[mgb_phys]

It's not the stupidest thing they've done.
The dept of transport sent out questionaires about using public transport, as an encouragement to complete the forms they included a $5 bill.

Unfortunately they sent them out in brown circular style envelopes which most people dropped in the trash, and since they sent cash not checks they have no idea how many $$ were thrown out.

 

[Proton Soup]

i've been seeing television commercials for some time now, advertising census participation as a way to "ensure our community gets what it needs".

 

[Pengwuino]

They're using http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2011111456_censusfortune18m.html?syndication=rss" to get the word out, too.

Next time you crack open a fortune cookie, check the flip side. The federal government may have a message for you.

That sounds AWESOME.

This reminds me of a Futurama episode though where Hermise got a letter with the notification from the "Central Bureaucracy" that informed him "You are about to receive a letter from the central bureaucracy"

 

[Evo]

Doing it through the mail is going to save millions in taxpayer dollars. Just think of how much it costs the governement to send out census takers in person. With the "inaccesibility" to many people due to "no soliciting", people that won't open their doors to strangers, I know I won't, the extreme danger in sending a person into a potentially dangerous situation, the fact that the US is so spread out and has so many people, can you think of a better, more cost effective way to conduct a census?

 

[turbo]

Doing it through the mail is going to save millions in taxpayer dollars. Just think of how much it costs the governement to send out census takers in person. With the "inaccesibility" to many people due to "no soliciting", people that won't open their doors to strangers, I know I won't, the extreme danger in sending a person into a potentially dangerous situation, the fact that the US is so spread out and has so many people, can you think of a better, more cost effective way to conduct a census?

I have absolutely NO problem with them conducting the bulk of the census via mail, but WHY should they send out 100M letters saying that they they are going to mail out the census forms?

 

[BoomBoom]

That stupid commercial they put on during the Superbowl was a ridiculous waste of millions of dollars...

 

[Evo]

I have absolutely NO problem with them conducting the bulk of the census via mail, but WHY should they send out 100M letters saying that they they are going to mail out the census forms?

Because people are idiots, and hopefully some people will read the notices and understand they should fill out the census. Same reason that they are doing tv ads.

 

[WhoWee]

Spending tax revenue on advertising for the Census is ridiculous. The $2 million Superbowl ad could have created and funded 100 jobs for a year.

The total ad budget of $340,000,000 could create and fund 17,000 jobs for a year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/business/media/14adco.html

 

[Evo]

Last time they had advertising costs of around $150,000 AND census takers AND that was 10 years ago, things cost more now. It seems like a lot of expenditure is going for customized ads designed for specific non-Americans, including illegal aliens.

 

[turbo]

I don't know how much bulk mail costs these days, but even if they could get all those letters printed and mailed for 20 cents each, 100 million letters would cost 20 million dollars. That seems like a huge waste of money, since the letter didn't tell us anything we didn't already know - the census forms will be coming in the mail, and we should fill them out and return them.

 

[drankin]

I don't know how much bulk mail costs these days, but even if they could get all those letters printed and mailed for 20 cents each, 100 million letters would cost 20 million dollars. That seems like a huge waste of money, since the letter didn't tell us anything we didn't already know - the census forms will be coming in the mail, and we should fill them out and return them.

Part of the stimulus package for the USPS.

 

[Newai]

They should have an option to do it online the way we pay some of our bills.

 

[rootX]

They could simply send the forms to libraries, private corporation offices, religious, colleges or other welfare places?

 

[calculusrocks]

When I opened up this piece of mail, I just laughed. Gov't is naturally inefficient, and often ineffectual.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Here there are marquees at the bus stops that normally show the arrival times and are telling people to make sure to participate in the census.

I received my package the other day. I am perhaps too paranoid that I do not want to commit personal information to paper.

 

[calculusrocks]

I'll fill out the basic information. But as far as my race, I'm going to check Other and write in American. The rest is nobody's business.

It's not an irrational fear or anything like that. It's just something people do who value privacy.

Here there are marquees at the bus stops that normally show the arrival times and are telling people to make sure to participate in the census.

I received my package the other day. I am perhaps too paranoid that I do not want to commit personal information to paper.

 

[Office_Shredder]

The advertising is aimed at being more efficient not less

The numbers are fairly straightforward: All those live census takers are expensive. The Census Bureau estimates that if every household were to return the forms they receive in the mail, it would reduce its marginal costs by $1.5 billion. As such, every 1 percent increase in returns of the paper questionnaire reduces taxpayer costs by $85 million.

So to try to boost that return rate, the Census Bureau is spending $340 million on a promotional campaign, including $140 million for paid advertising, amounts that census communications director Steve Jost tells me are equivalent to what they spent in 2000, adjusting for inflation in paid media.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/njonline/po_20100315_1946.php

If the advertising convinces just 4% of the population to respond to the census, it's paid for itself

The letters themselves:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/be..._prompts_questi.html?wprss=behind-the-numbers

The Bureau says that research on such advance letters used during the 2000 head count finds they increase participation by about 6 percentage points. Groves writes in defense of the letters, "The research is clear that the advance letter can save money for all of us."

 

[lisab]

A few days ago, I received my notification that I will soon receive census forms. But the notification arrived without any notification of its own, so I didn't know what to do.

 

[rhody]

Talk radio covered this subject a day or two ago, something to think about...

When the actual Census Form is delivered less than a week or two later after the Census notification, if you answer the 10 questions then send in the form, little cost is incurred, less than 50 cents, the price of postage.

If you choose not to answer the Census, and they come to your door, the quoted cost to the tax payer is over 50 dollars, according to the radio talk show host.

Your tax dollars at work... not to mention the cost to send the notification of Census in the first place.

The thinking being that more people will answer the Census this way.

Rhody...

 

[calculusrocks]

How exactly does an advance letter increase participation?

 

[turbo]

How exactly does an advance letter increase participation?

It doesn't. See post #22. Lisab was confused about the notification because they hadn't thought to pre-notify her about the pending notification. Slackers!

Anyway, my census form didn't come in the mail, as promised. A real live woman knocked on my front door. I let her knock until her knuckles got sore, and she left the form and envelope in a plastic bag. No way I was going to open the door for a woman who is all heavily made-up, and explain at length that she couldn't interview me because all her cosmetics and fragrances were making me sick. They should have used the mail instead of paying her to come here. That was a waste of money.

 

[Moonbear]

I think the reason they did it is because of rumors going around about fake census forms. I think it was a way to let people know the real one is on the way, don't assume it's fake and throw it out.

The letter I got telling me the census form was coming also included some other things to dispel other rumors going around, about how the information might be used.

I got the actual census form a couple days ago, along with another insert explaining about answers being confidential and not subject to the FOIA .

I don't know WHY people are getting all up in arms about the census this time around. It asks the same things it has always asked just to collect basic demographic information.

I think the most important information they need on it is the age of people in a household. That allows communities to plan ahead if they need more or less schools in a few years, or perhaps more services for retired people, etc.

There seem to be a lot of rumors running around about reporting race on the form, scaring people into thinking they're going to be discriminated against if they report their race or some such nonsense. It's just basic demographic information every census has collected. If anything, it could be used to help fight racism, to show where political boundaries or school district boundaries have been drawn in a way that excludes certain races, or includes others. When you see district boundaries zig-zagging across a street and managing to put every white, Christian family into one district, and every brown-skinned or non-Christian family into another district, a census showing this can help make the argument that the boundaries are discriminatory (my boyfriend says this is the case in his hometown, for example...instead of drawing boundaries simply down the middle of a street, which would make an obvious district boundary, they've zig-zagged down the street to give certain ethnic, racial, or religious groups more power in an individual district, which is blatantly discriminatory).

 

[BobG]

Once burned, twice shy.

They got me on the first one. I opened it only to find out it was nothing more than an advertisement saying I'd be receiving a census sometime in the future.

I was too smart for them on the second one. I tossed it in the trash unopened. I'm not opening any of their envelopes until they send the one with the actual census in it.

 

[Moonbear]

Once burned, twice shy.

They got me on the first one. I opened it only to find out it was nothing more than an advertisement saying I'd be receiving a census sometime in the future.

I was too smart for them on the second one. I tossed it in the trash unopened. I'm not opening any of their envelopes until they send the one with the actual census in it.

LOL!

Though, I'm wondering how accurate this census is going to be. Mine asked about people living in my house on April 1, 2010 (really). I mailed it today (because otherwise I'd forget)...what happens if I get hit by a bus and killed before April 1? What if someone else has a baby born prematurely sometime this month instead of later this year and has already returned the census form? Should I have waited to mail it back until I was sure I was still alive on April 1? Am I committing some sort of perjury to have filled it out as soon as I got it? But the mailing I got a couple weeks ago told me it was important to fill out RIGHT AWAY and return it, so I wouldn't cost the state money having to send out door knockers. If the form wants to know who lives in my house as of April 1, shouldn't they have mailed it out to arrive ON or AFTER April 1?

C'mon, if Amazon can somehow deliver the latest Harry Potter book to me the day it is supposed to be released, can't the US government deliver the census form to me the day it is supposed to be filled out?

 

[Proton Soup]

There seem to be a lot of rumors running around about reporting race on the form, scaring people into thinking they're going to be discriminated against if they report their race or some such nonsense. It's just basic demographic information every census has collected. If anything, it could be used to help fight racism, to show where political boundaries or school district boundaries have been drawn in a way that excludes certain races, or includes others. When you see district boundaries zig-zagging across a street and managing to put every white, Christian family into one district, and every brown-skinned or non-Christian family into another district, a census showing this can help make the argument that the boundaries are discriminatory (my boyfriend says this is the case in his hometown, for example...instead of drawing boundaries simply down the middle of a street, which would make an obvious district boundary, they've zig-zagged down the street to give certain ethnic, racial, or religious groups more power in an individual district, which is blatantly discriminatory).

the ads are playing directly into this, imo. I've heard at least two ads (one aimed at black females, the other at white males) that are pretty blatantly suggesting to people that they need to properly fill in their census forms so that they can be assured their people get their fair share of federal spending.

 

[turbo]

the ads are playing directly into this, imo. I've heard at least two ads (one aimed at black females, the other at white males) that are pretty blatantly suggesting to people that they need to properly fill in their census forms so that they can be assured their people get their fair share of federal spending.

It's not just Federal spending that's at stake, but Federal representation and state representation. Districts are apportioned using census data. Of course, if you give out personal information and the government finds out you are an illegal alien, Michelle Bachmann warns that the Feds will swoop in and send you to an internment camp.

 

[turbo]

Ironically, Backmann's state is on the population cusp, and could lose a Representative this year, especially if her constituents fail to participate. My understanding is that her district is the most gerrymandered of all, and would be a prime candidate to be broken up and melded with bordering districts. Wouldn't that be fun! Backmann scares Michigan Republicans into not filling out the census, she loses her district and seat in Congress...oh the hand-wringing, liberal conspiracy stories, and victim tales she'll be able to spin. She can join Palin on the lecture circuit, trading stories about Death Panels and Internment Camps.

 

[Proton Soup]

Ironically, Backmann's state is on the population cusp, and could lose a Representative this year, especially if her constituents fail to participate. My understanding is that her district is the most gerrymandered of all, and would be a prime candidate to be broken up and melded with bordering districts. Wouldn't that be fun! Backmann scares Michigan Republicans into not filling out the census, she loses her district and seat in Congress...oh the hand-wringing, liberal conspiracy stories, and victim tales she'll be able to spin. She can join Palin on the lecture circuit, trading stories about Death Panels and Internment Camps.

so who is she trying to scare off, her own constituents, or those "illegal aliens" ? if hers is so gerrymandered, i assume that means they don't have many "illegal aliens".

 

[calculusrocks]

It's not just Federal spending that's at stake, but Federal representation and state representation. Districts are apportioned using census data. Of course, if you give out personal information and the government finds out you are an illegal alien, Michelle Bachmann warns that the Feds will swoop in and send you to an internment camp.

Pffff. Complete lie here. Michelle Bachmann merely pointed to the census in the 1940s that lead to http://www.seattlepi.com/national/cens17.shtml" during the war.

Ironically, Backmann's state is on the population cusp, and could lose a Representative this year, especially if her constituents fail to participate. My understanding is that her district is the most gerrymandered of all, and would be a prime candidate to be broken up and melded with bordering districts. Wouldn't that be fun! Backmann scares Michigan Republicans into not filling out the census, she loses her district and seat in Congress...oh the hand-wringing, liberal conspiracy stories, and victim tales she'll be able to spin. She can join Palin on the lecture circuit, trading stories about Death Panels and Internment Camps.

I have no doubt that the democrats want to rework the districts to get Michelle Bachmann out. I'm sure they are on top of that.

 

[calculusrocks]

Anyway, I'm not giving them my phone number. I just filled in one of my senator's phone numbers instead.

Filling it out is not voluntary for citizens. There are hefty fines if you don't. I may have to pay a fine for filling out a phony phone number, but whatever.

 

[turbo]

Pffff. Complete lie here. Michelle Bachmann merely pointed to the census in the 1940s that lead to http://www.seattlepi.com/national/cens17.shtml" during the war.

Complete lie? Thanks a pile. She repeatedly brings this up, presumably to scare Hispanics and other non-whites that the census can be used against them. Why would she continually rant about this? Are we trying to purge Japanese people? No, the big GOP boogeyman is Hispanics who may be here illegally, even if they trim your trees and mow your lawns.

Three Republican Reps joined together to ask her to stop ranting against the census, and she ignored them, so they went public.

We share Ms. Bachmann's concerns about ACORN's involvement in the 2010 Census and will continue pressuring the Bureau to follow their own guidelines for partnering organizations and dump ACORN. However, we can not emphasize enough how important it is for every individual to fill out their census forms.

Every elected representative in this country should feel a responsibility to encourage full participation in the census. To do otherwise is to advocate for a smaller share of federal funding for our constituents. Boycotting the constitutionally-mandated census is illogical, illegal and not in the best interest of our country.

The unfortunate irony is that Ms. Bachmann's boycott only increases the likelihood that ACORN-recruited census takers will be dispatched to her constituents' homes. Anyone who completes and returns their census form will remove any need for a census taker to visit their residence.

Furthermore, a boycott opens the door for partisans to statistically adjust census results. The partisan manipulation of census data would irreparably transform the census from being the baseline of our entire statistical system into a tool used to wield political power in Washington.

 

[calculusrocks]

Complete lie? Thanks a pile. She repeatedly brings this up, presumably to scare Hispanics and other non-whites that the census can be used against them. Why would she continually rant about this? Are we trying to purge Japanese people? No, the big GOP boogeyman is Hispanics who may be here illegally, even if they trim your trees and mow your lawns.

Three Republican Reps joined together to ask her to stop ranting against the census, and she ignored them, so they went public.

You're welcome. Your own quote shows that it was about ACORN administering the census, a highly politicized non-profit that has drawn media criticism for corruption and election registration fraud.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/11/census-bureau-severs-ties-acorn/

***After ACORN was thrown out of the mix, the boycott was off. So yes, lie.***

 

[turbo]

You're welcome. Your own quote shows that it was about ACORN administering the census, a highly politicized non-profit that has drawn media criticism for corruption and election registration fraud.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/11/census-bureau-severs-ties-acorn/

After ACORN was thrown out of the mix, the boycott was off. So yes, lie.

Please dig up the recent Glenn Beck show when Backmann was on and watch his response to her rants. Even he couldn't take it, and cut her off.

If you have a really good explanation for why she keeps bringing up the internment camps, bring it up. Otherwise, we should assume that she's trying to panic Hispanics, many of whose residency situation is complex. And it is not a really good idea to keep calling people liars on this forum without any substance on your own part.

 

[WhoWee]

I love the last question on the form.
"Does this person sometimes live or stay somewhere else?"

 

[lisab]

Conversation with a Census worker

<ding-dong>

me: Hi, can I help you?
Census worker: Hi, I'm from the Census...
me: Oh we mailed our forms in, I'm sure..
Cs: Yes you did, it's about your neighbor there. They did not send in their forms, and won't answer the door.
me: Doesn't surprise me, he's the biggest jackass you'll ever want to meet.
Cs: I see. Does anyone live with the jackass?
me: No, even his cat left him.
Cs: Would you mind being a proxy to state the jackass lives alone?
me: <shrugs> Sure, why not.
Cs: <takes pertinent information, gives short spiel about why an accurate count is important>
Cs: Thank you and sorry about your misfortune.

 

[Proton Soup]

asking neighbors to act as a "proxy" (what's a 5-letter word for "informant"?) just seems a little creepy to me.

i had a census worker ask me what the correct number was for two houses next door (not on the mailbox). so i suggested to her that she try either the post office or google maps. she persists and i tell her i just don't know. seriously, why would i? my guess is no better than hers. maybe before, when it was simple and every house on the circle was numbered 1 thru 13, but a few years ago USPO got a bug up their rump and decided to give every address in town its own special number. still, why census workers would not have basic tools available to complete their mission seems a little too frugal.

 

[Evo]

Conversation with a Census worker

<ding-dong>

me: Hi, can I help you?
Census worker: Hi, I'm from the Census...
me: Oh we mailed our forms in, I'm sure..
Cs: Yes you did, it's about your neighbor there. They did not send in their forms, and won't answer the door.
me: Doesn't surprise me, he's the biggest jackass you'll ever want to meet.
Cs: I see. Does anyone live with the jackass?
me: No, even his cat left him.
Cs: Would you mind being a proxy to state the jackass lives alone?
me: <shrugs> Sure, why not.
Cs: <takes pertinent information, gives short spiel about why an accurate count is important>
Cs: Thank you and sorry about your misfortune.

That's hilarious. I don't know why people fear the census, there is nothing in there to be concerned about. And if you are concerened about someone knowing how many people live in your house, the information is not publicly released for 72 years.