What's the truth about phase velocity vs. group velocity?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion clarifies the distinction between phase velocity and group velocity in wave propagation, particularly in the context of light waves. Phase velocity can exceed the speed of light (C) under certain conditions, while group velocity typically describes the speed of information and energy transfer. Anomalous dispersion allows for scenarios where group velocity can appear to exceed phase velocity or even become negative. The consensus is that group velocity is the more relevant measure for signal velocity in most practical situations.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of wave mechanics
  • Familiarity with optical dispersion
  • Knowledge of light wave properties
  • Basic principles of signal velocity
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the concept of anomalous dispersion in optics
  • Explore the mathematical definitions of phase velocity and group velocity
  • Investigate the implications of superluminal phase velocities in quantum mechanics
  • Learn about practical applications of group velocity in telecommunications
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics, optical engineering, and telecommunications who seek to deepen their understanding of wave propagation and its implications in various media.

peter.ell
Messages
42
Reaction score
0
I know the phase vs group question has been asked before, but I really don't quite understand it. I've read in various places that the phase velocity of a light wave has been made to go faster than C, and in others that the group velocity has been made to go faster than C, and even made negative so that it appears to exit a medium before it even enters. This is called anomalous dispersion, but what in the world does this mean?

What, conceptually, is the difference between phase velocity and group velocity, which is the one that can really go faster than C, and how can it do so?

Refer to this for the source of my questions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispersion_(optics)#Group_and_phase_velocity

Thank you so much!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Here's an applet that shows an example of group velocity greater than phase velocity.

http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/APPLETS/20/20.html

This is actually rather unusual, and occurs under the conditions described on that page. Usually the group velocity is less than the phase velocity.
 
Perhaps someone can tell the original poster the conditions for which the signal velocity (which must be less than c) is approximately equal to the phase velocity or to the group velocity or to neither.

I believe that, most of the time, if there is a fairly well-defined envelope for a wave, the group velocity is a good description of how fast information and energy propagates. And that the phase velocity should almost never be used as a signal velocity. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
 
peter.ell said:
What, conceptually, is the difference between phase velocity and group velocity
Simplistically speaking, phase velocity is the velocity at which a peak (or a trough) moves; group velocity is the velocity at which an entire group of waves moves.

which is the one that can really go faster than C
Both. Neither one nor the other can represent the "signal velocity", excepting for special situations.

and how can it do so?
I will use a metaphor: if you put many lamps in a row and you make them switch on in a specific temporal order, you can make a flash of light move along the row at the speed you want, even > c. But this doesn't correspond to a physical signal moving along the lamps, because the lamps were programmed to switch on at the specified timing.
You can do the same with phase velocity and with group velocity (as in the nice applet posted by jtbell).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
6K
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
6K