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Where did god coem from?

  1. Apr 17, 2003 #1
    I was listeng to an atheist and a christian debate (really juts putting each other down)over the existance of god, One siad where did the unievers coem from the atheist said that it was always there but the christian siad god then the atheist asked where god came from and the christian siad he was always there.

    Now i ask where dose god come from?
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 17, 2003 #2
    The scientist doesn't know where the singularity came from, but they don't stop with that, they work on finding out. The Christian doesn't know where God came from but they don't care and don't try to figure it out.

    As of now, both are just assumed to have been there.

    Debating doesn't involve insulting, nor do I know about any insulting in this forum.

    Also, just a note, no scientists claims the universe has always been there, it started about 13.6 (I'm not positive on that figure) billion years ago. But according to Creationists, God has always been around and has come from nothing, just always been[?].
  4. Apr 17, 2003 #3


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    Our imagination.

    (waits for inevitable flames )
  5. Apr 17, 2003 #4
    A clever and amusing answer FZ+.

    Let's deal with this question philosophically. Why is it necessary that he has to come from something or somewhere or someone? Why can not God always have been?
  6. Apr 17, 2003 #5


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    laser eyes, i think that this is a valid question, and i think the best answer to it is, it depends on your definition of "god"...
  7. Apr 17, 2003 #6
    Science doesn't say that time began, or the universe began 13.6 billions of years ago, at most they claim that is the farthest back we can have evidence of.
    Some extensions to the BB theory perhaps claim that also at the singularity time began, but that is a peculiar question.

    For most scientist the question of a beginning is not settled, and a reasonable amount of scientists will claim that there can not have been a begin of time.

    Just because of the assumption that time could have a beginning, this implies "something" must have started it. This then calls for a Deity.
    But then one can ask, where did this Deity come from. The defenders of that Deity then claim that this Deity always existed.
    The question is however, why something which is stated to be impossible for the world itself, is not impossible for this Deity.

    The only reasonable answer to that is that it isn't necessary to state the the world had a beginning in time, and therefore a Deity is not to be assumed.

    That is also why science wants to know what conditions determined the early universe, and what could have caused the Big Bang.
    So far a reasonable theory has come up that can explain this, and removes the beginning of time issue, explains why our universe looks the way it does and makes predictions that can be tested. This theory goes under the name eternal, chaotic or open inflation, developed by andrei linde of stanford university. It looks to be a better theory then the Hawking-Turok Instanton "pea" (invoking a beginning of time issue), or the ekpyrotic model of brane cosmology (which has it's own problems like brane stabilization, and invokes us to accept a mathematical model of 10-D space of branes and superstrings, that sofar never could be tested experimentally).
  8. Apr 17, 2003 #7
    I didn't mean to imply it wasn't a valid question. I think it is definitely a legitimate question. The Bible answer is that God has always existed and has no creator, ie he didn't come from anywhere.
  9. Apr 17, 2003 #8
    I did not address the issue of time, and I was simply using the current prediction the big bang has set from the singularity.
  10. Apr 18, 2003 #9
    If Jesus was here and could speak for God.how would he answer this question about qhere God came from.If there was a begining and God came into existence,In a instant and became self aware of himself,and found himself a God capable of creating a universe any way he wanted.How could he answer that question and say he knew.If you just became aware of yourself,how would you know where you came from.do you remember when consciousness ocurred in you mother womb,or being a baby for that matter.I'm sure he if anyone would have a good guess,like anyone else,but thats probable the best even God could do,just guess.
  11. Apr 18, 2003 #10
    This is a good point, perhaps God only became aware of himself before he created the world, and when he became aware of himself there was nobody else in existance, therefore he concluded (without challenge) he always was, maybe someone created him:wink:
  12. Apr 18, 2003 #11
    no one know this answer....
    because what we say is just what we think about god
    maybe the question can change to
    "the human want the god come from where?"
  13. Apr 18, 2003 #12
    He would speak in riddles and would not directly answer the new kind of phara seee nots. Not much would change. Some would come to understand his words and some would not. Others would be jealous and some would not care less unless it affected them somehow which goes against there present goals in any way.
  14. Apr 19, 2003 #13
    maybe.. just maybe, our knowledge is not enough to reach the thing about "where did god came from"
  15. Apr 19, 2003 #14
    It's difficult to comprehend something that has always been and yet infinite creation has always been. I had this battle with original sin many years ago and thought where did this separation occur? Ha, jokes on me. To understand all of life is not difficult, just be like a child look listen and learn. Water, air, fire, earth. You have the ability to know anything you really want to know.
  16. Apr 19, 2003 #15
    If we listen long and hard enough...we will hear whatever answers we already want to hear.
  17. Apr 19, 2003 #16
    That is correct and eventually you will see what is if your desire is great enough. If you do not understand this, then science would be quite imppossible would it not?
  18. Apr 19, 2003 #17
    That's nonsense...no matter how much we look, how much we desire, reality is what it is, no more and no less. If you see or hear anything else, it is because you are delusional, and there are medications that can help you stop having psychotic episodes in which what you want becomes so simply because of your desire.
  19. Apr 19, 2003 #18
    your rebuttal is nonsense, TENYEARS never claimed that reality is anything more or less than what it is, only ones perception of it.
  20. Apr 19, 2003 #19
    I agree that any type of manifestation which occurs is a manifestion of self. Sometimes these have happened to people in cases where they were entrenched relgious expectations and yet part of this experience was nonrelative. Was there delusion, yes and yet in some cases there was also nonrelative knowing.

    According to what you have spoken you relate to the manifestation of self and not to the nonrelative. There is a state of knowing without manifestation and there is one which is with manifestation which is in balance accross the board which is what Wu Li says in his post existance is all I need. It has been said of the americian indians and every major culture or religion which was formed by this central experience.
  21. Apr 19, 2003 #20
    No, he's claiming that there is some sort of magical world, only accessable through magical senses...which sounds rather fanciful, at least to me.
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