Which diagram of water molecules is correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the correct representation of water molecules using covalent dot and cross diagrams, focusing on the validity of different drawing conventions and their implications for understanding molecular structure. Participants explore the theoretical and pedagogical aspects of these representations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that diagrams are representations and do not have direct physical meaning, emphasizing that students often misinterpret these models as literal truths.
  • There is a suggestion that there is no single "proper way" to draw these diagrams; rather, there are conventions that can be chosen based on context, such as the course textbook used.
  • One participant highlights the importance of understanding the underlying logic of the diagrams rather than treating the conventions as facts.
  • Another participant expresses gratitude for the input received and acknowledges their own limited knowledge, indicating a desire for further understanding.
  • A participant recommends consulting introductory texts on theoretical chemistry for deeper insights into the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of a "proper way" to draw molecular diagrams, with some arguing that conventions are flexible while others emphasize the importance of adhering to educational standards. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best practices for teaching these representations.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the diagrams are simplifications of reality and that the logic behind them is more significant than the specific conventions used. There is an emphasis on the need for clarity in teaching these concepts to students.

lioric
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TL;DR
Which way is the correct way to draw dot and cross covalent structures
I've seen both types of diagrams when drawing covalent dot and cross diagrams. And some students that I teach said that the electrons should be on the circles.
But I do know that this is actually showing the electron overlap and electron field and in reality electrons are not in circular orbits, it's more complex than that. So is either of these correct?
 

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No. These are representations. Models/simulacra/...
 
Students new to Chemistry often take the representations meant to learn something like, maybe bonding, but they take it literally and assume these have direct physical meaning. Just because you can draw it does not make it reality. Example: I can draw unicorns.
 
Thank you very much for your input
May I know the proper way to draw the dot cross / Lewis structure
 
lioric said:
proper way
You will have to tell us a bit more about yourself to give us an idea which "proper way" applies; age, professional/amateur/physicist/chemist/biologist/geologist... We can see what you're asking; just ask the question. What do you actually want to know?
 
Bystander said:
You will have to tell us a bit more about yourself to give us an idea which "proper way" applies; age, professional/amateur/physicist/chemist/biologist/geologist... We can see what you're asking; just ask the question. What do you actually want to know?
For grade 8,9,10 chemistry students
 
lioric said:
For grade 8,9,10
Thank you.
 
There is no such thing as a "proper way" here. There are conventions of drawing the diagram, you can freely choose whichever suits you best (preferably the one course textbook uses, it will make easier for you and your students to discuss the bonds). But the important thing here is: don't let the convention become a "fact". Diagram is a way of expressing some underlying logic, convention is a way of drawing the diagram - it is the underlying logic that is important, everything else is secondary.

(Actually even this "logic" is a simplification of reality and is in a way secondary to what is really going on in molecules).
 
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Borek said:
There is no such thing as a "proper way" here. There are conventions of drawing the diagram, you can freely choose whichever suits you best (preferably the one course textbook uses, it will make easier for you and your students to discuss the bonds). But the important thing here is: don't let the convention become a "fact". Diagram is a way of expressing some underlying logic, convention is a way of drawing the diagram - it is the underlying logic that is important, everything else is secondary.

(Actually even this "logic" is a simplification of reality and is in a way secondary to what is really going on in molecules).
Thank you very much for all your input. When I talk here it always dawn's up on me for how little I know and that there is so much of knowledge out there.
I really appreciate your help.
I'll consider this as resolved
 
  • #11
DrDu said:
You are a teacher? Then maybe you ought to consult an introductory text on theoretical chemistry, like (the first decent looking find in google):
http://simons.hec.utah.edu/NewUndergradBook/TableofContents.html
Yes I'm a teacher.
I just wanted to see if drawing in either method would be wrong
I do know it's a concept and neither of them is how real structure looks like
Thank you for the link
 

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