Which formula is a better predictor for changes in arrow weight: KE or Momentum?

In summary, the conversation discusses the use of mathematical formulas to predict the changes caused by various arrow weights in crossbows. The formulas used are KE = 1/2MV^2 and MO = MV, but the results obtained for new arrow weights do not match. The speaker is unsure which formula is the most accurate predictor and is seeking clarification. The conversation also touches upon the concept of kinetic energy being constant for one crossbow and different arrow types, but the relationship between momentum and arrow mass is unclear. Ultimately, the speaker realizes their error and acknowledges that the two formulas cannot be used interchangeably for different arrow masses.
  • #1
bluejacket
3
0
Ok, here's the problem. I am evaluating multiple crossbows to predict the changes caused by various arrow weights. The original arrow mass and velocities are available. I input the two formula's: KE = 1/2MV^2 and MO = MV and solve for each, and then use those results with new arrow weights to solve for the new velocities. My problem is that I get different results.

Which should prove to be the most accurate predictor and why?

I know the results will not be pure because they don't include friction and other variables, but just based on the formula's above I was expecting closer results.
 
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  • #2
Let me ask this a different way.
I know the current speed and arrow weights for several models.
Using basic mathmatical priciples I would assume I could use that info to calculate either the Kinetic energy (KE = 1.2mv^2) , or the momentum (MO = mv).
I would further assume that having solved for those values I could then use new arrow weights to back track and find the new resulting velocities.
I would think that if I use the same variables in the 2 formulas I should get the same new velocities. I do not?
Example: Original arrow mass = 425gr Original velocity = 405fps
New arrow mass = 505gr New velocity = ?

My results using the KE formula gave a new velocity of 372fps.
" " " " MO formula gave a new velocity of 341fps.

What am I missing?
 
  • #3
I would assume the kinetic energy to be constant for one crossbow and different arrow types.

A crossbow applies force over a distance. I assume that this distance doesn't depend on the arrow type. And the force only depends in the current position of the arrow along this distance. So the integral of force over distance (work) is constant.

I don't quite understand why you expect the momentum to be also constant for one crossbow and different arrow types.
 
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  • #4
First off, thanks for the responce. Kinetic Energy was my first standard and I'm glad to see that echo'd as appropriate. It has been a long time since I've thought through this stuff, and I looked at the momentum formula to cross check myself. I know that momentum would go down with increased arrow mass, but I guess I just got hung up in trying to work the respective formula's forward and back with the same variables.
Anyway, I think I see my error, thanks.
 
  • #5
bluejacket said:
I know that momentum would go down with increased arrow mass,
If KE is to be the same, then momentum goes up with increased arrow mass. For example: If the arrow mass is 4 times bigger, then it's velocity is only halved. Therefore the momentum doubles.

bluejacket said:
I think I see my error, thanks.
When you look at the formulas, you'll see that you cannot have two moving bodies with different masses but same kinetic energy and momentum.
 
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Related to Which formula is a better predictor for changes in arrow weight: KE or Momentum?

What is the difference between kinetic energy and momentum?

Kinetic energy (KE) is the energy an object possesses due to its motion, while momentum is a measure of an object's mass and velocity. KE is a scalar quantity, while momentum is a vector quantity.

Why is kinetic energy a more common standard than momentum?

Kinetic energy is a more common standard because it is easier to measure and calculate than momentum. KE only requires knowledge of an object's mass and velocity, while momentum also requires knowledge of an object's direction of motion.

How are kinetic energy and momentum related?

Kinetic energy and momentum are related through the equation KE = 1/2mv^2, where m is the mass of the object and v is its velocity. This means that an object with a higher momentum will also have a higher kinetic energy.

Which one is a more accurate measure of an object's motion?

Neither kinetic energy nor momentum is a more accurate measure of an object's motion. They both provide valuable information about an object's movement, and can be used together to fully understand its motion.

Can kinetic energy and momentum be conserved?

Yes, both kinetic energy and momentum can be conserved in a closed system where there are no external forces acting on the objects. In these situations, the total amount of KE and momentum before and after an interaction will be the same.

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